Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21
  1. #11
    Raymott's Avatar
    Raymott is online now VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Academic
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    19,948
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: could actually make you a bit crazy and depressed

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    I seem to have given you too many questions, burdening you.
    No, you posted the above less than 24 hours ago (just). I'm not always here.

    Sorry. Okay, just one question.
    Is this "Californians" a conditional-implying word? So is this "would" lower probability than "will" or a certainty like "will"?
    ex)Californians would pronounce cot and caught in the same way.
    No, this is an example of using "would" as an unspecified conditional, as I explained before. The speaker means "Californians do pronounce cot and caught in the same way". But the speaker does not want to make such an emphatic statement that almost begs to be challenged, with the speaker having to prove it.
    Review the posts where I explain why we say, "I would say ... "

  2. #12
    Raymott's Avatar
    Raymott is online now VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Academic
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    19,948
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: could actually make you a bit crazy and depressed

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    ex)...People from California would pronounce cot and caught in the same way...
    "would" in if-clause conditionals means a certainty in a specific condition like "will".
    For example, "If she came to the party tomorrow, I would be really glad". Doesn't this "would" still function as a certain "will" in an imaginary situation?
    Yes, that's what a conditional is. It would happen if that situation existed. You can also say, "If she comes to the party tomorrow, I will be really glad." This is still conditional. If she doesn't come, you won't be glad.

    But what I'm always confused about is if there's no if-clause like in ex)"People from California would pronounce cot and caught in the same way", does it mean a certainty on the condition as in "If there were the people from California, they would pronounce cot and caught in the same way" or low probability like "could" without if-clause?
    No, I've explained that use of 'would' - more than once, I'm sure.

    Many grammar books say "if clause" can be implied as a subject or an adverb phrase, so when I see sentences without if-clause, I try to think if the subject is a conditional-implying one or not. Okay, the summarized question is the following.

    1. If you met Californians, they would pronounce cot and caught in the same way.(certainty = almost 100% if the condition is met)
    Yes, that is one possible "if" clause. But it's arbitrary. The if clause is not defined, therefore you can't define it.

    2. Californians would pronounce cot and caught in the same way. (certainty or low probability?? Is "Californians" an implied condition to replace if-clause? )
    Do you mean, "If you were Californian, you would pronounce them that way"? No, it doesn't mean that, although that would logically follow.

    3. You would see Californians pronounce cot and caught in the same way.(low probability??? without any condition?)
    Yes, again this is implied by the original statement, but it's not what it means.
    I would suggest that when you see a "would" clause without an "if" clause, you should ask yourself whether it simply means that the speaker does not want to be so emphatic as to claim that this is the final and correct word on the matter.

  3. #13
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,479
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: could actually make you a bit crazy and depressed

    Thanks a lot, it was really helpful. To further study "I would say", I searched with "raymott & I would say", but it returned no result due to too many parameters. How can I see those posts? Will you just let me know the post links? Sorry to bother you...

  4. #14
    Raymott's Avatar
    Raymott is online now VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Academic
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    19,948
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: could actually make you a bit crazy and depressed

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    Thanks a lot, it was really helpful. To further study "I would say", I searched with "raymott & I would say", but it returned no result due to too many parameters. How can I see those posts? Will you just let me know the post links? Sorry to bother you...
    Look at this thread for others' opinions:
    I agree/I would agree ?

    If you can't find my relevant past posts, I probably won't find them either. I would suggest that you keep your eyes open for future posts with "would" in their title to get more understanding of this.

  5. #15
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,479
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: could actually make you a bit crazy and depressed

    Okay, "Californians.."doesn't imply any conditional, but the following two do, and my confusion derives from the fact in these two cases, "would" functions like "will", a certainty, but in without if-clause like "Californians..." "would" seems to function as a euphemism to suggest your opinion carefully.
    In other materials I found "I would say.." as an uncertain euphemism, and you say it's strong, and I think probably you meant the same thing as other materials.
    In short, I thought "would" implying conditional means a strong possibility while "would" not implying conditional means an uncertainty, so it was hard to tell which is which.

    1. You are so stupid to marry such a drunkard. I wouldn't marry him. (If I were you, I wouldn't...) - if clause implied
    2. He wrote such an offensive remark in the article, and I wouldn't have written so. (If I had been(were) him, I wouldn't...) - if-clause implied.
    3. Californians would pronounce cot and caught in the same way(no if-clause implied, euphemism)
    Last edited by keannu; 05-Mar-2012 at 17:39.

  6. #16
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,479
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: could actually make you a bit crazy and depressed

    I'm sorry I understood your teaching pretty much, but something is not clear.
    I posted the following one, and does this "would" here mean non-emphatic euphemistic expression as you taught me? Or does it mean a conditional as in "If it were in that context, it would mean..."? Sentences with this kind of adverb phrases always confuse me.

    Q: Does " numbering in the thousands" mean "its number was thousands"? But I feel "numbering thousands" is sufficient, so "in the" seems redundant, what is it for?
    ex)The snowy plover is one of the hardest birds to spot on the beach. Once numbering in the thousands, the species is listed as endangered in several states now. Beige and white, snowy plovers blend perfectly in the white sand.

    A: In that context, 'numbering thousands' would suggest that there weren't really very many. I don't know anything about snowy plovers' range, but I imagine it's several thousand square miles; 'thousands and thousands' is a good way of emphasizing how numerous they are.

  7. #17
    Raymott's Avatar
    Raymott is online now VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Academic
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    19,948
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: could actually make you a bit crazy and depressed

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    I'm sorry I understood your teaching pretty much, but something is not clear.
    I posted the following one, and does this "would" here mean non-emphatic euphemistic expression as you taught me? Or does it mean a conditional as in "If it were in that context, it would mean..."? Sentences with this kind of adverb phrases always confuse me.

    Q: Does " numbering in the thousands" mean "its number was thousands"? But I feel "numbering thousands" is sufficient, so "in the" seems redundant, what is it for?
    ex)The snowy plover is one of the hardest birds to spot on the beach. Once numbering in the thousands, the species is listed as endangered in several states now. Beige and white, snowy plovers blend perfectly in the white sand.

    A: In that context, 'numbering thousands' would suggest that there weren't really very many. I don't know anything about snowy plovers' range, but I imagine it's several thousand square miles; 'thousands and thousands' is a good way of emphasizing how numerous they are.
    Here it means "non-emphatic euphemistic expression" (if that's how you want to refer to it).

    This is similar to saying. "In that context I would say
    that 'numbering thousands' suggests that there weren't really very many

  8. #18
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,479
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: could actually make you a bit crazy and depressed

    Thanks a lot! I know it's quite irritating to explain what you already know in your mind analytically. I also know a matching Korean word "겟/get/" for "would", and I naturally say it in any case, but trying to explain it would be a devil's time as you said in another thread(sorry!!).
    Many grammar books taught me if there's an implied conditional adverbs or conditinal sentences like the following even though there's no if-clause, the sentence can be a conditional. So wouldn't the following be a conditional?
    What is the standard to tell a mild, non-emphatic, euphimistic sentences for opinions from conditionals with "would"? Can I interpret any sentence without "if clause" as opinions?(I'm not so silly as to interpret every "would" as opinions) Then my stereotypes will be shattered. I hope this will be the last question as I don't want to annoy you any more, but please know that I think about "would" even while taking a walk.

    1. You are so stupid to marry such a drunkard. I wouldn't marry him. (If I were you, I wouldn't...) - if clause implied

  9. #19
    Raymott's Avatar
    Raymott is online now VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Academic
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    19,948
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: could actually make you a bit crazy and depressed

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    Thanks a lot! I know it's quite irritating to explain what you already know in your mind analytically. I also know a matching Korean word "겟/get/" for "would", and I naturally say it in any case, but trying to explain it would be a devil's time as you said in another thread(sorry!!).
    Many grammar books taught me if there's an implied conditional adverbs or conditinal sentences like the following even though there's no if-clause, the sentence can be a conditional. So wouldn't the following be a conditional?
    What is the standard to tell a mild, non-emphatic, euphimistic sentences for opinions from conditionals with "would"?

    There's no standard. Not many people would be interested in telling one from the other. (euphemistic)

    Can I interpret any sentence without "if clause" as opinions?(I'm not so silly as to interpret every "would" as opinions) Then my stereotypes will be shattered. I hope this will be the last question as I don't want to annoy you any more, but please know that I think about "would" even while taking a walk.

    1. You are so stupid to marry such a drunkard. I wouldn't marry him. (If I were you, I wouldn't...) - if clause implied
    Yes, you can call sentence 1. an implied conditional. But really, you just have to understand the sentence - which I'm sure you do.

  10. #20
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,479
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: could actually make you a bit crazy and depressed

    I'm sorry I'm breaking my promise. I swore not to ask about "would" any more as it might be quite irritating to you. But I encountered the following "would" that I coulnd't understand well. Is it an opinion(euphemistic) or a conditional? If I regard it as a conditional, "a bottle full or diry water" can be an unlikely or counterfactual condition as 2nd conditional, but I as you explained to me, it seems a question for others' opinions. ***Now I realized it's a polite request in conditional mood, definitely!!!(at the last minute)

    Actually, I didn't fully understand when you corrected "Won't you say "My son will recover from his cold?"" to "Wouldn't you" as I thought careful, mild opinions come from speakers, and not for listeners. So is it a polite, careful, euphemistic question for listeners?

    I heard 5jj said even native speakers don't know why they say some "would", but I think at least they may have some motive in mind to say that. I encounter hundreds of "would" all over, and after I came to know "opinion" usage of "would", I'm in a maze and the following link explains too many kinds. Don't I have to care too much about the various kinds of "would" such as polite requests, wish, opinions, and presumptions that belong to conditionals?

    Would

    ex)Would you pay a dollar for a bottle full of dirty water? What if it was labeled "maleria" or "cholera"? You could buy this unusual bottled water from a vending machine World Water Week in New York City. The water was sold as part of an effort to raise awareness in America about the lack of clean water in many areas of the world..... Most New Yorkers who passed by the vending machine were disgusted by the bottles of dirty water at first. But once they learned more about the serious problem, many of them donated money to help end it....They promised that each dollar would allow them to provide fresh, clean water to 40 children for one day...
    Last edited by keannu; 14-Mar-2012 at 06:55.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. I am very depressed with my listening capability?
    By nomisme in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 23-May-2010, 01:01
  2. Help me make it bit shorter
    By new2grammar in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 24-Mar-2010, 04:56
  3. make a bit aof a show
    By iemmahu in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 25-Dec-2009, 16:31
  4. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-Jul-2009, 06:24
  5. depressed
    By Anonymous in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 28-Oct-2004, 21:07

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •