cot-caught merger not official?

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keannu

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According to some statistics such as Phonological history of English low back vowels - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and other websites, "cot-caught merger" has become prevalent across North America, but its percentage in 2005 seems to be only 43%(I mean people that pronounce cot[kɑ:t] and caught[kɔ:t] the same way are almost 43%.)

I've learned English from people from Utah mostly, so I'm cot-caught merged, is the reason why they still adopt distinct /ɔ/ sound in online or paper dictionaries that /ɔ/sound still has higher percentage than /ɑ/?
 
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keannu

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I remember hearing from SoothingDave that there's no official accent in USA, then why is "ɔ" introduced to other countries as the standard pronunciation for words like talk, saw, auto, etc while cot-caught merger is quite prevalent throught the states? Is it because "ɔ" is still used in Washington, the capital?
Is the capital's language designated as the formal accent?
 

PinkDolphin

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I've learned English from people from Utah mostly, so I'm cot-caught merged, is the reason why they still adopt distinct /ɔ/ sound in online or paper dictionaries that /ɔ/sound still has higher percentage than /ɑ/?

Hello...

What makes you think it's not official? :-?

All Hollywood accent coaches recommend the cot/caught merged accent of Western type (that is, to the low back UNROUNDED vowel, and not to the low back ROUNDED vowel [typical of Boston/Pittsburgh/Canada]).

Take a look at the Merriam Webster's Learner's Dictionary, only the cot/caught merged pronunciation is given:

COLLAR /ˈkɑ:lɚ/
CALLER /ˈkɑ:lɚ/

dawn = Don
Paul = pol ...





:)
The low back merger is spreading, it has reached the state of New York :-D:

”Progress toward the low back merger in New York State” (the complete article is available free of charge)
just Google it ;)
 

PinkDolphin

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Something more:

The Socio-Economic Significance of Four Phonetic Characteristics in North American English

Abstract: This paper uses a least-square regression method that relates per-capita income to four phonetic characteristics (r-dropping, and the so-called "father-bother", "cot-caught" and "pin-pen" mergers), to study the socio-economic significance of those characteristics in North American English. As a result we find a positive and statistically significant relationship between per-capita income and r-dropping, and between per-capita income and the presence of the "cot-caught" merger, and a negative and statistically significant relationship between per-capita income and the "pin-pen" merger. No statistically significant relationship is found, however, between per-capita income and the presence of a "father-bother" merger or split.
 

keannu

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It's amazing!!! You are the man!!!! Thanks a million!! Molto Grazie!! Abrogado!!(I forgot it in Portugest) Gracias!!!
 

keannu

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In Marriam Webster's Learner's Dictionary, one thing I found weird was that they still have ɔ sound for ɑ spells, I mean if you actually click on the words like "dog, law, cost, etc", the actual sound is not /ɑ/ but /ɔ/. and the voice actors are all the same as in Dictionary and Thesaurus - Merriam-Webster Online


***Merriam Webster's Learner's Dictionary,
only the cot/caught merged pronunciation is given:

COLLAR /ˈkɑ:lɚ/
CALLER /ˈkɑ:lɚ/

dawn = Don
Paul = pol ...
 

thatone

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The merged vowel can be [ɒ], [ɔ], [ɑ] or even [ä].
However, most people have rounding (
[ɒ] or [ɔ]) before [ɫ] and (some) before [ŋ].

However, many areas, especially in the Northeast, do not have the merger.
 

Barb_D

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For me, talk and saw are the same sound as caught, but cot is different - it's the same as hot. I'm from New York, and the only thing that would tell you that is when I say coffee as cawfee - more like saw and less like hot. And Dawn and Don are completely different as well.


And as for the accent of the capital being "official"? God no! I'm not sure I'd know a "Washington" accent if there even is such a thing but no one concsiously tries to emulate it. Baltimore is just of the road from DC, and it has a weird accent all its own.
 

keannu

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Thanks a lot! I'm more interested in if you happen to know why almost all the dicitonaries and many English textbooks have [ɔ] sound instead of [ɑ] while cot-caught merger is quite prevalent. Who selects the sound based on what? Do they do it based on a specific area or the percentage of use as a whole? I guess it's percentage base.This might be the share of linguists, I'm sorry.
 

birdeen's call

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PinkDolphin has given an example of a dictionary that doesn't do it. It's an American dictionary. For other American dictionaries, I generally use two: a paper version of M-W and the AHD online. My M-W is at the bottom of a rather impressive-looking pile of books now, so I won't check what's done there. But the AHD does indeed split "cot" and "caught". For British dictionaries, it would be strange if they did. The merger is not present in English English, and those dictionaries tend to stick to some kind of "generic RP".

As PinkDolphin said, the merger is spreading. Only recently, I came across a blog post by a person who just realized they were starting to merge "cot" and "caught". When older dictionaries were complied, the percentage of merging Americans was lower, and you should take into account that linguistic changes take their time to penetrate dictionaries, especially ones with traditions. We will see what the future will bring, but indeed when I watch American television, I very rarely hear these vowels unmerged. Still, even on this forum, I remember an American calling this merging lazy pronunciation. So some haven't gotten used to it yet.
 

PinkDolphin

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PinkDolphin has given an example of a dictionary that doesn't do it. It's an American dictionary. For other American dictionaries, I generally use two: a paper version of M-W and the AHD online. My M-W is at the bottom of a rather impressive-looking pile of books now, so I won't check what's done there. But the AHD does indeed split "cot" and "caught". For British dictionaries, it would be strange if they did. The merger is not present in English English, and those dictionaries tend to stick to some kind of "generic RP".

As PinkDolphin said, the merger is spreading. Only recently, I came across a blog post by a person who just realized they were starting to merge "cot" and "caught". When older dictionaries were complied, the percentage of merging Americans was lower, and you should take into account that linguistic changes take their time to penetrate dictionaries, especially ones with traditions. We will see what the future will bring, but indeed when I watch American television, I very rarely hear these vowels unmerged. Still, even on this forum, I remember an American calling this merging lazy pronunciation. So some haven't gotten used to it yet.

As for British dictionaries, learner's dictionaries give both the British (RP) and the (General) American pronunciation, but there are differences:
1) Cambridge Advanced Learner's uses cot/caught merged American pronunciation
2) Oxford Advanced Learner's uses cot/caught UNmerged American pronunciation in the entries (IPA transcription), but the recorded pronunciation is cot/caught merged since they've hired voice actors from California. :lol: So, in the Oxford ALD case, the pronunciation given in IPA symbols does not match the recorded pronunciation. :roll: (it the opposite what MW did: they give the merged pronunciation in their learner's dictionary but link to recorded words from their main/large dictionary which features the cot/caught unmerged pronunciation). :roll:
 

keannu

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Thanks for your endeavor. But in Oxford Advanced Learner's, some pronunciations by the female actor are cot-caught merged, while others by the male actor are not so. I think they recorded only some of them following cot-caught merger. I couldn't find Cambridge Advanced Learner's online dictionary. I guess cot-caught merger's percentage will overturn non merger in the near future.

Anyway, here on this website, I learned from some teachers that America doesn't have any standard language, respecting each state's accent as it is, so whether cot-caught merger is higher in percentage or not, I feel we should respect both ways equally.
 

PinkDolphin

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Thanks for your endeavor. But in Oxford Advanced Learner's, some pronunciations by the female actor are cot-caught merged, while others by the male actor are not so. I think they recorded only some of them following cot-caught merger. I couldn't find Cambridge Advanced Learner's online dictionary. I guess cot-caught merger's percentage will overturn non merger in the near future.

Anyway, here on this website, I learned from some teachers that America doesn't have any standard language, respecting each state's accent as it is, so whether cot-caught merger is higher in percentage or not, I feel we should respect both ways equally.

Remember that the cot/caught merger is a phonological merger (rather than a phonetic merger).
Both Vancouver and Seattle are cot/caught merged,

but,
most people in Vancouver pronounce dollar, song, politics, lot, Don/Dawn, naughty/knotty with the rounded vowel [ɒ] (RP British English John/song vowel),
while in Seattle most people have the unrounded vowel [ɑ] in these words.

Chicago is cot-caught unmerged, but cot is [kät] (low central unrounded) or [kat] (low front unrounded), while caught is [kɑt] (low back unrounded vowel). So, many people in Chicago/Cleveland/Detroit/Buffalo pronounce words like caught, long, wall with [ɑ], exactly the same way most people in the low back merged areas (for example St. John's NF, Plattsburgh NY,Burlington VT, Denver CO, Phoenix AZ or San Diego CA) pronounce these words.

Lana del Rey is a perfect example of a cot/caught merged person from the low back merged part of the New York state (NE part of this state, next to Vermont which is completely cot/caught merged to [ɑ]).

Listen to her song Video games...;-)

Many native New Yorkers, like Lady Gaga and Brooke Shilelds are cot/caught merged, but they've been accent coached in order to sound as if they were from California, it's not the native accent of the NYC area (although as I said before, the merger can be found in parts of the state of NY).
 
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