[General] Talking about the future

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mafto

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I have seen in many books rules about using particular tenses and expressions for describing particular circumstances related to the future.
E.g. the future simple when the decision is done at the time of speaking or when it is an offer (I will help you) etc.
'Going to' when I decided before, the present continuous for thing that have been arranged before the time of speaking, the present simple for talking about events that are independent from the speaker's will - timetables, schedules, programmes...
OK, but that's just about what particular expressions emphasise, isn't it?
To what extent are we forced to keep to these rules? E.g. if I'm talking about a film tonight...can I say "It will start at 9 o'clock"?

I'm a bit confused by many exercises in students books in which it seems that it is incorrect to use some other tenses and expressions.

Thank you for helping me :)
 

SoothingDave

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f I'm talking about a film tonight...can I say "It will start at 9 o'clock"?

Sure. Or "it's going to start..." Or "the film starts at..."
 

richardavie

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I think the problem is that there are several correct ways of saying these things and they all carry very subtle shades of meaning. My advice (and it's cold comfort) is to spend as much time as possible listening to natives and you will pick it up from the context.
 

SoothingDave

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I agree that there can be intended shades of meaning, but in practice there often isn't. I think a lot of natives use "will" and "going to" interchangeably.
 

5jj

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I agree that there can be intended shades of meaning, but in practice there often isn't. I think a lot of natives use "will" and "going to" interchangeably.
I think that in many situations it is possible for more than one way of expressing the future to be used naturally, and so I am very unhappy about the type of exercise that expects learners to 'choose the correct/best/most appropriate future form to fill in the gaps'. I also feel that, in certain situations the difference in meaning between the present progressive and the BE+going+to future is so slight as to be almost non-existent.

However, I do not agree that will and BE+going+to are interchangeable in most situations for most speakers. Here are some more thoughts on the subject:

Ways of Expressing the Future in English
 

SoothingDave

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I think that in many situations it is possible for more than one way of expressing the future to be used naturally, and so I am very unhappy about the type of exercise that expects learners to 'choose the correct/best/most appropriate future form to fill in the gaps'. I also feel that, in certain situations the difference in meaning between the present progressive and the BE+going+to future is so slight as to be almost non-existent.

However, I do not agree that will and BE+going+to are interchangeable in most situations for most speakers. Here are some more thoughts on the subject:

Ways of Expressing the Future in English

I'm getting a "page not found" when clicking your link.
 

5jj

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keen learner

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I think that in many situations it is possible for more than one way of expressing the future to be used naturally, and so I am very unhappy about the type of exercise that expects learners to 'choose the correct/best/most appropriate future form to fill in the gaps'. I also feel that, in certain situations the difference in meaning between the present progressive and the BE+going+to future is so slight as to be almost non-existent.

However, I do not agree that will and BE+going+to are interchangeable in most situations for most speakers. Here are some more thoughts on the subject:

Ways of Expressing the Future in English
Please give some examples as to where you will use "going to" and "present continuous" to show that they mean two different things?

" I am going to buy a new dress tomorrow."
"I'm buying a new dress tomorrow."
What's the difference in their meaning?
Thanks
 

emsr2d2

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Please give some examples as to where you will use "going to" and "present continuous" to show that they mean two different things?

" I am going to buy a new dress tomorrow."
"I'm buying a new dress tomorrow."
What's the difference in their meaning?
Thanks

I would read no difference at all in those two.

I have said in a previous thread on this subject that I wasn't going to comment on this topic any more because I very rarely see any difference whatsoever between "going to" and "will" and the other variations. Despite that promise and just to show how similar I feel they are, as far as I'm concerned, the following sentences mean exactly the same thing:

I'm taking my driving test on Monday.
I'm going to take my driving test on Monday.
I'm going to be taking my driving test on Monday.
I'll be taking my driving test on Monday.
I will take my driving test on Monday.
 
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5jj

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As I said in an earlier post, "I also feel that, in certain situations the difference in meaning between the present progressive and the BE+going+to future is so slight as to be almost non-existent".

However, in the following pair, there is a difference. The second part of #1 cannnot refer to the future; the second part of#2 can refer only to the future:

1. I'm not going to the pub; it's raining.
2. I'm not going to the pub; it's going to rain.
 

5jj

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I have said in a previous thread on this subject that I wasn't going to comment on this topic any more because I very rarely see any difference whatsoever between "going to" and "will" and the other variations. Despite that promise and just to show how similar I feel they are, as far as I'm concerned, the following sentences mean exactly the same thing:

I'm taking my driving test on Monday.
I'm going to take my driving test on Monday.
I'm going to be taking my driving test on Monday.
I'll be taking my driving test on Monday.
I will take my driving test on Monday.
I'll not ask you to break your promise and follow this up; I'll merely express surprise that you feel no difference at all in these, particularly as far as the last is concerned.
 

emsr2d2

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I'll not ask you to break your promise and follow this up; I'll merely express surprise that you feel no difference at all in these, particularly as far as the last is concerned.

I'll follow it up anyway. I just feel that the result of all five of those sentences will be the same: On Monday, a driving test will be taken by me.
 

5jj

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I'll follow it up anyway. I just feel that the result of all five of those sentences will be the same: On Monday, a driving test will be taken by me.
OK, but you could say that about "A driving test will be taken by me on Monday", and I don't think you would say that that conveys exactly the same meaning and/or is as natural as "I'm taking my driving test on Monday".

My own feeling is that, in this particular example, there is little practical difference in meaning between the first four. However, the fifth, I will take my driving test on Monday seems to be different. I think that there is here an assertion of certainty, determination ans/or of volition that is not present in the others. If the idea is is simply to report on the the future taking of the test, then I think that few native speakers would produce that.

I feel that many course books place too much emphasis on a difference between the various ways of expressing the future; frequently it is possible to use any one of two, three or more ways, with little pratical difference. However, this is not always the case, as I showed in #11 , and my own feeling is that to say there is 'rarely' a difference between them is to mislead learners.
 

emsr2d2

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OK, but you could say that about "A driving test will be taken by me on Monday", and I don't think you would say that that conveys exactly the same meaning and/or is as natural as "I'm taking my driving test on Monday".

OK, my final word on this topic (so I'm back to my promise) is this: The only difference in meaning that I see between those two quoted sentences is that the first one doesn't specify that it's my driving test I'm taking. However, seeing as (unless you're committing fraud), you can't take someone else's driving test, I don't think that particular omission is a problem.

As far as the likelihood/determination/volition etc of the event actually happening is concerned, I find no difference at all.

I'm more than willing to concede though that so many other native speakers do hear/read this nuance, that it must be me who is missing something.
 

SoothingDave

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However, the fifth,
I will take my driving test on Monday seems to be different. I think that there is here an assertion of certainty, determination ans/or of volition that is not present in the others. If the idea is is simply to report on the the future taking of the test, then I think that few native speakers would produce that.

I think it depends on how much emphasis is placed on the "will." "I WILL pay my taxes on Monday" vs. "I'll pay my taxes on Monday."

The first one, to me, has a strong volition. The second, not really.
 

5jj

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I think it depends on how much emphasis is placed on the "will." "I WILL pay my taxes on Monday" vs. "I'll pay my taxes on Monday."

The first one, to me, has a strong volition. The second, not really.
I agree, but I feel that the second has more of an idea of volition than, for example, "I'm paying my taxes on Monday".

Let's lok at a different example:

Fred: I need to go now: The airport bus leaves at ten.
Bill: Oh, don't worry, I .......... take you.

Several forms can be used, but, for me, "I'm taking you" and "I'm going to take" you' suggest that Bill has already made the decision (or somebody else has made it for him), while "I'll take you" suggests an offer made at the time, the 'instant decision' of some books. All three (and other) forms are possible, and, unless Fred declines, all result in Bill taking Fred to the airport. That does'mean that they have exactly the same meaning.
 

philo2009

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I have seen in many books rules about using particular tenses and expressions for describing particular circumstances related to the future.
E.g. the future simple when the decision is done at the time of speaking or when it is an offer (I will help you) etc.
'Going to' when I decided before, the present continuous for thing that have been arranged before the time of speaking, the present simple for talking about events that are independent from the speaker's will - timetables, schedules, programmes...
OK, but that's just about what particular expressions emphasise, isn't it?
To what extent are we forced to keep to these rules? E.g. if I'm talking about a film tonight...can I say "It will start at 9 o'clock"?

I'm a bit confused by many exercises in students books in which it seems that it is incorrect to use some other tenses and expressions.

Thank you for helping me :)

It rather depends what you mean by '(in)correct'. If you mean 'Would it be ungrammatical to say "the film will start at 9:00"?', the answer is, of course, it would not. The sentence is structurally flawless. If, however, you mean 'would it be natural/idiomatic to say it?', the answer is 'no'.

Since, however, the use of 'will' here would hardly seriously impede communication, many natives, even teachers, will simply not bother to comment on it. Nevertheless you ought to be aware that, no matter how convincing your pronunciation may be, if you persistently use 'will' for this kind of sentence (as for stating planned future actions instead of 'be going to' or the present progressive), you will forever mark yourself out as a learner!
 
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