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  1. #11
    raindoctor is offline Member
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    Default Re: can someone help me with reducing my asian accent

    Well, I listed two consequences of learning GVS. You are nitpicking one of the consequences. But the first consequence helps anyone. One need to go beyond dictionaries to predict pronunciations; that's where GVS helps. Sure, my advice is helpful to a few; just because it is not helpful to some group, it doesn't mean that it is not helpful.

    To the OP,

    check this post:

    The naturalness of British vowels | speech talk

  2. #12
    5jj's Avatar
    5jj is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: can someone help me with reducing my asian accent

    Quote Originally Posted by raindoctor View Post
    One need to go beyond dictionaries to predict pronunciations; that's where GVS helps.
    Unfortunately, it is sometimes just not possible in English to 'predict' how a particular word is pronounced. A native speaker, a teacher or a good dictionary are rather more useful for most people than a knowledge of the great vowel shift.

  3. #13
    raindoctor is offline Member
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    Default Re: can someone help me with reducing my asian accent

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    Unfortunately, it is sometimes just not possible in English to 'predict' how a particular word is pronounced. A native speaker, a teacher or a good dictionary are rather more useful for most people than a knowledge of the great vowel shift.
    It depends on the scope of the word 'predict'. One need more than GVS to get there: tools are there to help, even people like John Lawler advises students to study English linguistics (Old English, Middle English phonologies, for instance), rather than phonics, which is useless. Either brain needs a some smart card port for an electronic dictionary, so that they can check every lexical entry when needed; or go to a native speaker, dictionary, or teacher.

    So, we are left with no other choices between these two extremes! Not many believe in that hypothesis, though.

    For instance, Karl Marldot and Charles-James Bailey came up with a book for English pronunciation, which includes many heuristics from Old, Middle English, etc. So, I don't need to argue further about the importance of whatever I said earlier.

    Their book is: Grundzuge der englischen Phonetologie: Allgemeine Systematik


    Last edited by raindoctor; 25-Apr-2012 at 19:48.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: can someone help me with reducing my asian accent

    Quote Originally Posted by raindoctor View Post
    For instance, Karl Marldot and Charles-James Bailey came up with a book for English pronunciation, which includes many heuristics from Old, Middle English, etc. So, I don't need to argue further about the importance of whatever I said earlier.
    Well, you might give an example or two to make the point clear.

  5. #15
    waikchow is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: can someone help me with reducing my asian accent

    [QUOTE=raindoctor;877430]Well, I listed two consequences of learning GVS. You are nitpicking one of the consequences. But the first consequence helps anyone. One need to go beyond dictionaries to predict pronunciations; that's where GVS helps. Sure, my advice is helpful to a few; just because it is not helpful to some group, it doesn't mean that it is not helpful.

    To the OP,

    check this post:



    Thanks a lot!! I will have a good look at it. I always find it hard sometimes to pronounce every word clearly. Is it because of insufficient breath or insufficient focus on the tongue? Do the native speakers put a lot of stress on their tongues or just let it move freely? I am paying more attention to how native speakers pause between stops because i have sort of developed a bad habit of skipping the consonants sounds at the end of words and now find it really hard to do it when i don't know what the speech pattern is. Could you give me some advice on that too?

  6. #16
    raindoctor is offline Member
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    Default Re: can someone help me with reducing my asian accent

    Quote Originally Posted by waikchow View Post
    [ I always find it hard sometimes to pronounce every word clearly. Is it because of insufficient breath or insufficient focus on the tongue? Do the native speakers put a lot of stress on their tongues or just let it move freely? I am paying more attention to how native speakers pause between stops because i have sort of developed a bad habit of skipping the consonants sounds at the end of words and now find it really hard to do it when i don't know what the speech pattern is. Could you give me some advice on that too?
    What do you mean by "a lot of stress on their tongues"? Tongue height and its backness (frontness) determines the vowel. Untrained ears perceive to put a spectrum (set) of vowels as a single vowel in their native language. I don't know about letting it move freely: any difficult task can become easier after a while.

    Since you have a fetish for RP, just go to UK and get trained with Geoff Lindsey ( English Speech Services - Home ), a real phonetician, not some TESL/SLP guy. That's how you can jump start your learning. Otherwise, you end up wasting time with all false starts, practice-wise. In the mean time, you can get borrow books on phonetics and phonology from your library and increase your knowledge, so that you can ask right questions.

    There are some many accent reduction trainers out there, selling snake oil crap: for instance, there is one in the bay area, who talks about breath while teaching fricatives. She doesn't even mention the word fricative. That may work for someone who wants to change *a bit*, but not for someone like you.

    Online forums are good if you have a specific question like "how to pronounce X", etc.

  7. #17
    waikchow is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: can someone help me with reducing my asian accent

    I mean if u move your tongue consciously when you speak or you hardly notice it's moving at all.
    I did a free online assessment and the result is really good.
    ((Hello Ka,
    Thanks for your online free assessment recording. I found you have a beautiful and sophisticated British accent, which is perfect for teaching English in Japan. If you wanted to teach an American accent as well as the Queens English, it would entail only replacing a few sounds.

    I only caught two slight traces of an Asian accent. You can work on replacing and fixing those sounds. Below is your assessment. Please give me a call, and I will ‘show’ you how to say those sounds. Of course this was only a short assessment. If you would like the complete phonetic assessment it would take about an hour. This is included in my coaching package, but if you would like only the assessment, it’s $85.

    It’s lovely when I see someone who has a goal like yours, to have perfect pronunciation. I wish you all the best! ))
    However, when i talk to friends, i never get such positive comments.

    Anyway, i took you advice and contacted Geoff Lindsey. Hope to be able to talk to him soon. Thanks for recommending me such a good speech coach to me. There are so many of them and i didn't which to go to. Now i do now. Thanks.

  8. #18
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: can someone help me with reducing my asian accent

    Quote Originally Posted by waikchow View Post
    I mean if u move your tongue consciously when you speak or you hardly notice it's moving at all.
    In normal speech, my tongue moves without any conscious effort- it only moves consciously when I am using unusual stress/pronunciation, etc.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: can someone help me with reducing my asian accent

    Quote Originally Posted by waikchow View Post
    my lecturer of phonetics didnt even help me with tuning my vowels nor help me with my speaking, when i asked for help and places where i could do accent reduction.
    That's not at all surprising. She's a phonetics lecturer, not a speech therapist. Also, linguistics is largely descriptive as it's practiced. The idea of helping to modify a student's speech would not occur to many university lecturers; it's certainly not in their job description, and they aren't paid for it.

  10. #20
    waikchow is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: can someone help me with reducing my asian accent

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    In normal speech, my tongue moves without any conscious effort- it only moves consciously when I am using unusual stress/pronunciation, etc.
    That's exactly what happens when I speak Cantonese, which is my mother tongue. However, I find that I need to put more focus on my tongue if I want to pronounce every consonant clearly. I wonder if it's normal...

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