[General] can someone help me with reducing my asian accent

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waikchow

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hi everyone,

my name is ka. i am a year three university student of linguistics in nz. as i want to pursue a teaching career in the future, i try really hard getting rid of my asian accent. i am currently enrolled in an online course to help speaking with a neutral accent, so-called RP accent. however, every time when my friend mocks with my accent, he makes me think i really sound like a retard. is there anyone who could help me identify my problems? i think its best to have someone point out the problems for you and u can work on the more. (the online course i am doing is only giving me exercises,and it charges me extra money for assessment)

i will be really grateful for any help and opinions. i can record it and post it here or i can do it on skype too.
my email address is waikachow, using gmail.
 

raindoctor

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Why don't you use the university to reduce your Asian accent, since you are in the linguistics department.

Take these courses, if any.

1. Articulatory phonetics course (not English phonetics) Or master JC Catford's practical phonetics. Usually, your course instructor will help you master your vocal apparatus
2. Once you master 1), study relevant English phonetics and phonology books.
3. Learn about the great vowel shift.
4. Learn stress patterns and think about these problems: how native speakers predict the stress of unknown/foreign word; how they anglicize foreign words; how stress affects the vowel quality; and so on
5. Find a course in your university, which deals with intonation. Here, you should gain some understanding of various phenomena: chunking; broad and narrow focus; or 3 T's of John Wells, since you want to master RP.
6. Even if you don't have an instructor to pursue (1) through (5), you can study on your own, since you are a linguistics student. If you can afford, find someone who trains actors. You can find them on vastavox. Or check with the theater/drama department in your university;they usually have a couple of faculty members, who know the stuff.
7. If you get an opportunity, always take one-on-one lessons. Also observe cheeks, teeth, lips,etc, of native speakers.
8. If you can find a coach, who mastered Mandarin with a native-like accent, that's the best cure you can ever find. Or you can do that exercise by yourself: check how your countrymen map graphemes to sounds (orthography) and compare with native speakers mapping. This process is systematic. Most if not all L2 speakers have the list mentality; that is, compile a list of proper pronunciations of mispronounced words. This list mentality may help to an extent; after a while, it stunts the learning process. You need to study it systematically, not list-wise.
 

Raymott

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hi everyone,

my name is ka. i am a year three university student of linguistics in nz. as i want to pursue a teaching career in the future, i try really hard getting rid of my asian accent. i am currently enrolled in an online course to help speaking with a neutral accent, so-called RP accent. however, every time when my friend mocks with my accent, he makes me think i really sound like a retard. is there anyone who could help me identify my problems? i think its best to have someone point out the problems for you and u can work on the more. (the online course i am doing is only giving me exercises,and it charges me extra money for assessment)

i will be really grateful for any help and opinions. i can record it and post it here or i can do it on skype too.
my email address is waikachow, using gmail.
It seems to be a waste of resources learning in New Zealand but trying to de-Asianize your accent by learning RP. Why not just try to copy the accents of your friends and colleagues? NZE isn't that grotesque. Where are you hoping to teach?
 

waikchow

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Why don't you use the university to reduce your Asian accent, since you are in the linguistics department.

Take these courses, if any.

1. Articulatory phonetics course (not English phonetics) Or master JC Catford's practical phonetics. Usually, your course instructor will help you master your vocal apparatus
2. Once you master 1), study relevant English phonetics and phonology books.
3. Learn about the great vowel shift.
4. Learn stress patterns and think about these problems: how native speakers predict the stress of unknown/foreign word; how they anglicize foreign words; how stress affects the vowel quality; and so on
5. Find a course in your university, which deals with intonation. Here, you should gain some understanding of various phenomena: chunking; broad and narrow focus; or 3 T's of John Wells, since you want to master RP.
6. Even if you don't have an instructor to pursue (1) through (5), you can study on your own, since you are a linguistics student. If you can afford, find someone who trains actors. You can find them on vastavox. Or check with the theater/drama department in your university;they usually have a couple of faculty members, who know the stuff.
7. If you get an opportunity, always take one-on-one lessons. Also observe cheeks, teeth, lips,etc, of native speakers.
8. If you can find a coach, who mastered Mandarin with a native-like accent, that's the best cure you can ever find. Or you can do that exercise by yourself: check how your countrymen map graphemes to sounds (orthography) and compare with native speakers mapping. This process is systematic. Most if not all L2 speakers have the list mentality; that is, compile a list of proper pronunciations of mispronounced words. This list mentality may help to an extent; after a while, it stunts the learning process. You need to study it systematically, not list-wise.


thanks for your advice, they are so clear and detailed!
though my uni doesnt really offer much for learning to speak well, even our linguistics department. they only offer some really broad papers for linguistics students. like in our second year, we can only do three to four papers about linguistics which are not helping much to understand the english language. i feel like i am just touching the surface it, rather than knowing how to actually produce the sounds. (though i know where to produce them and how)
i wish they could offer some course like how to increase your resonance and improve you tone,stuff like that. anyway, thank you so much for all the advice!!
 

waikchow

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It seems to be a waste of resources learning in New Zealand but trying to de-Asianize your accent by learning RP. Why not just try to copy the accents of your friends and colleagues? NZE isn't that grotesque. Where are you hoping to teach?

its not like i think rp accent is above all the accents. i dont why but i have always enjoyed the english way of speaking since i first came to nz and started to be able to distinguish the difference between accents around the globe.
 

waikchow

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my lecturer of phonetics didnt even help me with tuning my vowels nor help me with my speaking, when i asked for help and places where i could do accent reduction.
she just suggested i should pay more attention to how people speak and told me that my accent is understandable.

but just i want more. i want to speak a language well when i like speaking the language, enjoying watching english dramas and reading english books.
 

Tdol

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Please also try to write the language well- this is a forum and not a chatroom, so use capital letters. Thanks
 

5jj

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3. Learn about the great vowel shift.
8. If you can find a coach, who mastered Mandarin with a native-like accent, that's the best cure you can ever find.
I don't really see how these help in the acquisition of RP
 

raindoctor

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I don't really see how these help in the acquisition of RP


Current spelling system has not changed since Middle ages; however, the pronunciation has shifted. Great vowel shift helps predict possible pronunciations by looking at the spelling--and in this sense, it is not specific for RP. But my advice was about acquiring any native accent. Second, some dialectal differences (like between Scottish and RP) can also be traced back to GVS.

To acquire any language, it has components: unlearning the original and learning the target. Unlearning can be systematic--some British speaker who mastered, say, the poster's native language, which I presume is Mandarin, can help to unlearn systematically.

I deal with some French speakers. My awareness of French phonetics and phonology, and French grapheme to sound correspondences, help these French speakers who try to acquire an american accent. That's the point I was making. There is more to acquiring an accent, besides phonetics and phonology, since in many phonetics books only rounded and spread vowels are distinguished. Among languages, rounding and spreading are two extremes: many languages fall some where in between. That's the another reason to watch out for cheeks, teeth, lips, instead of trusting the good old book "phonetics of the language X".
 

5jj

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Current spelling system has not changed since Middle ages;
Well, actually, it has.
however, the pronunciation has shifted. Great vowel shift helps predict possible pronunciations by looking at the spelling--and in this sense, it is not specific for RP.
You seem to be assuming that the OP is trying to pronounce the written word. Even if that were the case, an English pronouncing dictionary such as Roach's English pronouncing Dictionary (CUP) or Wells's Longman Pronunciation Dictionary would seem to me to be of rather more use than a reading up on the great vowel shift.
But my advice was about acquiring any native accent. Second, some dialectal differences (like between Scottish and RP) can also be traced back to GVS.
But the OP is interested in trying to acquire current RP.
5
 
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raindoctor

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Well, I listed two consequences of learning GVS. You are nitpicking one of the consequences. But the first consequence helps anyone. One need to go beyond dictionaries to predict pronunciations; that's where GVS helps. Sure, my advice is helpful to a few; just because it is not helpful to some group, it doesn't mean that it is not helpful.

To the OP,

check this post:

The naturalness of British vowels | speech talk
 

5jj

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One need to go beyond dictionaries to predict pronunciations; that's where GVS helps.
Unfortunately, it is sometimes just not possible in English to 'predict' how a particular word is pronounced. A native speaker, a teacher or a good dictionary are rather more useful for most people than a knowledge of the great vowel shift.
 

raindoctor

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Unfortunately, it is sometimes just not possible in English to 'predict' how a particular word is pronounced. A native speaker, a teacher or a good dictionary are rather more useful for most people than a knowledge of the great vowel shift.

It depends on the scope of the word 'predict'. One need more than GVS to get there: tools are there to help, even people like John Lawler advises students to study English linguistics (Old English, Middle English phonologies, for instance), rather than phonics, which is useless. Either brain needs a some smart card port for an electronic dictionary, so that they can check every lexical entry when needed; or go to a native speaker, dictionary, or teacher.

So, we are left with no other choices between these two extremes! Not many believe in that hypothesis, though.

For instance, Karl Marldot and Charles-James Bailey came up with a book for English pronunciation, which includes many heuristics from Old, Middle English, etc. So, I don't need to argue further about the importance of whatever I said earlier.

Their book is: Grundzuge der englischen Phonetologie: Allgemeine Systematik
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5jj

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For instance, Karl Marldot and Charles-James Bailey came up with a book for English pronunciation, which includes many heuristics from Old, Middle English, etc. So, I don't need to argue further about the importance of whatever I said earlier.
Well, you might give an example or two to make the point clear.
 

waikchow

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Well, I listed two consequences of learning GVS. You are nitpicking one of the consequences. But the first consequence helps anyone. One need to go beyond dictionaries to predict pronunciations; that's where GVS helps. Sure, my advice is helpful to a few; just because it is not helpful to some group, it doesn't mean that it is not helpful.

To the OP,

check this post:



Thanks a lot!! I will have a good look at it. I always find it hard sometimes to pronounce every word clearly. Is it because of insufficient breath or insufficient focus on the tongue? Do the native speakers put a lot of stress on their tongues or just let it move freely? I am paying more attention to how native speakers pause between stops because i have sort of developed a bad habit of skipping the consonants sounds at the end of words and now find it really hard to do it when i don't know what the speech pattern is. Could you give me some advice on that too?
 

raindoctor

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[ I always find it hard sometimes to pronounce every word clearly. Is it because of insufficient breath or insufficient focus on the tongue? Do the native speakers put a lot of stress on their tongues or just let it move freely? I am paying more attention to how native speakers pause between stops because i have sort of developed a bad habit of skipping the consonants sounds at the end of words and now find it really hard to do it when i don't know what the speech pattern is. Could you give me some advice on that too?

What do you mean by "a lot of stress on their tongues"? Tongue height and its backness (frontness) determines the vowel. Untrained ears perceive to put a spectrum (set) of vowels as a single vowel in their native language. I don't know about letting it move freely: any difficult task can become easier after a while.

Since you have a fetish for RP, just go to UK and get trained with Geoff Lindsey ( English Speech Services - Home ), a real phonetician, not some TESL/SLP guy. That's how you can jump start your learning. Otherwise, you end up wasting time with all false starts, practice-wise. In the mean time, you can get borrow books on phonetics and phonology from your library and increase your knowledge, so that you can ask right questions.

There are some many accent reduction trainers out there, selling snake oil crap: for instance, there is one in the bay area, who talks about breath while teaching fricatives. She doesn't even mention the word fricative. That may work for someone who wants to change *a bit*, but not for someone like you.

Online forums are good if you have a specific question like "how to pronounce X", etc.
 

waikchow

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I mean if u move your tongue consciously when you speak or you hardly notice it's moving at all.
I did a free online assessment and the result is really good.
((Hello Ka,
Thanks for your online free assessment recording. I found you have a beautiful and sophisticated British accent, which is perfect for teaching English in Japan. If you wanted to teach an American accent as well as the Queens English, it would entail only replacing a few sounds.

I only caught two slight traces of an Asian accent. You can work on replacing and fixing those sounds. Below is your assessment. Please give me a call, and I will ‘show’ you how to say those sounds. Of course this was only a short assessment. If you would like the complete phonetic assessment it would take about an hour. This is included in my coaching package, but if you would like only the assessment, it’s $85.

It’s lovely when I see someone who has a goal like yours, to have perfect pronunciation. I wish you all the best! ))
However, when i talk to friends, i never get such positive comments.

Anyway, i took you advice and contacted Geoff Lindsey. Hope to be able to talk to him soon. Thanks for recommending me such a good speech coach to me. There are so many of them and i didn't which to go to. Now i do now. Thanks.
 

Tdol

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I mean if u move your tongue consciously when you speak or you hardly notice it's moving at all.

In normal speech, my tongue moves without any conscious effort- it only moves consciously when I am using unusual stress/pronunciation, etc.
 

Raymott

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my lecturer of phonetics didnt even help me with tuning my vowels nor help me with my speaking, when i asked for help and places where i could do accent reduction.
That's not at all surprising. She's a phonetics lecturer, not a speech therapist. Also, linguistics is largely descriptive as it's practiced. The idea of helping to modify a student's speech would not occur to many university lecturers; it's certainly not in their job description, and they aren't paid for it.
 

waikchow

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In normal speech, my tongue moves without any conscious effort- it only moves consciously when I am using unusual stress/pronunciation, etc.

That's exactly what happens when I speak Cantonese, which is my mother tongue. However, I find that I need to put more focus on my tongue if I want to pronounce every consonant clearly. I wonder if it's normal...
 
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