When do the british pronounce r?

Status
Not open for further replies.

luka0309

New member
Joined
Jun 10, 2012
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Georgian
Home Country
Georgia
Current Location
Georgia
For example,ka: or ka:r
and how is it pronounced?
 

5jj

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Czech Republic
Current Location
Czech Republic
Most speakers of British English pronounce the word 'car' as /kɑ:/ except when it is followed immediately by a vowel sound, as in 'My car is in the garage', when they pronounce it /kɑ:r/
 

Chicken Sandwich

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Russian
Home Country
Russian Federation
Current Location
Netherlands
But, if I'm right, in accents from the south of England, the "r" in "car" is not silent, even it's not followed by a vowel sound. I believe Stephen Merchant talks like this, and he's from Bristol.
 

5jj

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Czech Republic
Current Location
Czech Republic
"Many dialects of English, including General American, most types of Irish English, Standard Scottish English, and much of the rural south and south-west of England, retain the earlier post-vocalic (both pre-consonantantal and pre-pausal) usage of /r/, distinguishing between RP homphones such as pour/paw; court/caught."

Cruttenden, Alan (2001) Gimsons's Pronunciation of English, London: Arnold
 

konungursvia

VIP Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Member Type
Academic
Native Language
English
Home Country
Canada
Current Location
Canada
And another simple answer: they pronounce it as well when it is initial (run, raw, real) and in consonant clusters (strong, bring, frown).
 

Chicken Sandwich

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Russian
Home Country
Russian Federation
Current Location
Netherlands
"Many dialects of English, including General American, most types of Irish English, Standard Scottish English, and much of the rural south and south-west of England, retain the earlier post-vocalic (both pre-consonantantal and pre-pausal) usage of /r/, distinguishing between RP homphones such as pour/paw; court/caught."

Cruttenden, Alan (2001) Gimsons's Pronunciation of English, London: Arnold

:up: I completely forgot that Northern-Ireland and Scotland were also part of Britain.
 

5jj

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Czech Republic
Current Location
Czech Republic

Mohammadhelmi

Junior Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
Arabic
Home Country
Israel
Current Location
Israel
And another simple answer: they pronounce it as well when it is initial (run, raw, real) and in consonant clusters (strong, bring, frown).
They pronounce it when it comes at the initial of words (read, rest, road) and in consonant clusters (strong, drink).
I am not a native speaker, but as i know it is not pronounced when it comes at the end of words as in (teacher, actor).
:)
 

5jj

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Czech Republic
Current Location
Czech Republic
They pronounce it when it comes at the[STRIKE] initial[/STRIKE] beginning of words (read, rest, road) and in consonant clusters (strong, drink).
I am not a native speaker, but [STRIKE]as[/STRIKE] i know it is not pronounced when it comes at the end of words as in (teacher, actor).
:)
We have already established in posts 2, 3 and 4, that it is pronounced at the end of words in some dialects of British English, and, when it is followed by a vowel, in most dialects.
 

birdeen's call

VIP Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Polish
Home Country
Poland
Current Location
Poland
And another simple answer: they pronounce it as well when it is initial (run, raw, real) and in consonant clusters (strong, bring, frown).

Not in all of them: the "r" in "storm" is silent.
 

BobK

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Location
Spencers Wood, near Reading, UK
Member Type
Retired English Teacher
Native Language
English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
Not in all of them: the "r" in "storm" is silent.
I think K was talking about consonant clusters that come before a vowel (as in his examples). Although it looks like a consonant cluster, the '-rm' of 'storm' isn't one (in a phonological sense). (Of course, the dialectal variaations already noted do sound the r - indeed there are some that insert a schwa between the r and the m).

b
 

birdeen's call

VIP Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Polish
Home Country
Poland
Current Location
Poland
I think K was talking about consonant clusters that come before a vowel (as in his examples). Although it looks like a consonant cluster, the '-rm' of 'storm' isn't one (in a phonological sense). (Of course, the dialectal variaations already noted do sound the r - indeed there are some that insert a schwa between the r and the m).
I don't understand. Isn't it a consonant cluster for a Californian person, for example? It's not for a speaker of a non-rhotic accent of course, but that was my point. Do you mean that I shoud have taken "stormed" as an example?

In which accents is there a schwa between the "r" and the "m" in "storm"? It doesn't sound unnatural to me but I can't recall any particular accent that does that.
 

BobK

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Location
Spencers Wood, near Reading, UK
Member Type
Retired English Teacher
Native Language
English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
I don't understand. Isn't it a consonant cluster for a Californian person, for example? It's not for a speaker of a non-rhotic accent of course, but that was my point. Do you mean that I shoud have taken "stormed" as an example? I was just defending K's examples, and I'd bet myself I wouldn't be the first to say 'non-rhotic'!

In which accents is there a schwa between the "r" and the "m" in "storm"? It doesn't sound unnatural to me but I can't recall any particular accent that does that.
bhai would know for sure, but I think the Irish 'form' sounds like 'forum'.

Something similar happens with another liquid. Irish 'film' definitely has two syllables.

b
 

5jj

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Czech Republic
Current Location
Czech Republic
Something similar happens with another liquid. Irish 'film' definitely has two syllables.b
So does Geordie 'film', but I think Geordie 'form' is only one syllable.
 

BobK

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Location
Spencers Wood, near Reading, UK
Member Type
Retired English Teacher
Native Language
English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
bhai would know for sure, but I think the Irish 'form' sounds like 'forum'.

...

Maybe it's just my ear. It could be that the r is syllabic. Since doing my CELTA I've taken to hearing schwa everywhere, as is the ELT fashion, where there are really syllabic consonants.

b
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top