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  1. #11
    birdeen's call is offline VIP Member
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    Re: There are at least two different pronunciations for "Eleven"?

    Well, I do understand what you're saying, but I must say I can't make it sound natural. Or maybe it's not about the sound of it, but my motoric habit. Anyway, making the /v/ bilabial is strange to me when I pronounce this word. Perhaps if I heard someone else say it, it wouldn't sound strange at all. But I'm almost sure I have never done it myself. Well, until now.

  2. #12
    birdeen's call is offline VIP Member
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    Re: There are at least two different pronunciations for "Eleven"?

    Having tried a couple more times, I think I have no problem with əle:nmen and əlevm:en. əle:m:en and similar pronunciations are going too far for me I guess.
    Last edited by birdeen's call; 03-Aug-2012 at 23:35.

  3. #13
    raindoctor is offline Member
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    Re: There are at least two different pronunciations for "Eleven"?

    Quote Originally Posted by birdeen's call View Post
    I don't understand what that means. What's "elebm"?

    This is what I mean: [ɪˈlɛbm̩] Here m is syllabic or b is nasally released. This has nothing to do with the word that follows the word 'seven'. This kind of variation heard in words like seven, open, happen, etc.

    Even words like ad'mit and ad'mire have variations: ab'mit and ab'mire. Here, there is no syllabic m.

    The word government is pronounced as gubmint. Here, it is like the pronunciation of seven described above.

  4. #14
    birdeen's call is offline VIP Member
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    Re: There are at least two different pronunciations for "Eleven"?

    I have no problem at all with abmit and abmire. Are you saying the following short conversation is possible?

    "haʊ menɪ?"
    "sem̩."

    where the m̩ is syllabic with a bit of more pressure at the beginning? For some reason, I find it more likely than the eleven case.

    PS: I find this completely impossible in "open"!
    Last edited by birdeen's call; 04-Aug-2012 at 00:03.

  5. #15
    raindoctor is offline Member
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    Re: There are at least two different pronunciations for "Eleven"?

    b is missing there. [sebm̩] is accepted. You are not going to hear that from pulpit, where non-functor words tend to be emphasized more often. Call it a register variant. I don't know whether it is heard in BrE.

    My dentist's hygenist (in Northern California) uses
    [ˈoʊpm̩], when she asks her patients to open their mouths while cleaning. Just as a single word, no word before or after.

    Someone from 1930's discussed this phenomenon. Charles-James Bailey discussed it as well. It is more of a tempo/register variant.




  6. #16
    birdeen's call is offline VIP Member
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    Re: There are at least two different pronunciations for "Eleven"?

    Would the hygenist do that in "open up" too? And in "it's open"?

  7. #17
    raindoctor is offline Member
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    Re: There are at least two different pronunciations for "Eleven"?

    Quote Originally Posted by birdeen's call View Post
    Would the hygenist do that in "open up" too? And in "it's open"?
    I don't know. I've just checked M-W, which lists this variant for open, seven and happen. Kenyon and Knott lists syllabic m for seven, eleven, happen, open, heaven.

    Check this out: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bwt...FcwSjhZR194cWs

  8. #18
    birdeen's call is offline VIP Member
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    Re: There are at least two different pronunciations for "Eleven"?

    I asked because you convinced me about the particular situation you described. My intuition is that this is impossible in "open up", and less probable in "it's open". I still can't get used to it in "eleven".

    Thanks for the link.

  9. #19
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Re: There are at least two different pronunciations for "Eleven"?

    Quote Originally Posted by raindoctor View Post
    I don't know whether it is heard in BrE.
    I've heard it.

  10. #20
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    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Re: There are at least two different pronunciations for "Eleven"?

    Quote Originally Posted by birdeen's call View Post
    And that's a pronunciation of "eleven" native speakers use? I don't think I have encountered it.
    It is, as phoneticians say, allophonic utterance-finally*.

    b

    PS * ... and, as 5jj said, when there's assimilation (due to a following bilabial). As he also said, most native speakers aren't aware of it, and even dispute it when you tell them - until they see a spectrogram.
    Last edited by BobK; 04-Aug-2012 at 18:09. Reason: Added PS

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