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Thread: Gerund Question

  1. #11
    cuneiform is offline Junior Member
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    Re: Gerund question

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    What do you mean by 'indefinite language'?
    It has in fact no existentials (notions related to [human] existence); therefore, there are mainly no works on existentialism in this language, and if any available, then they are all translated from other languages. Say, "go" does not imply "how", and you never know, whether "on foot" or "by car" [while studying a foreign language it's very important indeed]; or "being" implies a lot of things without distinguishing between the process of the being and things and beings themselves as if they were the same while most philosophies do claim they are not. So, at the both stages (basic, advanced) one is never certain about a lot of things in question.

    This gives a reason for the assignable indeterminacy of translation problem, (further on you are following the text of wiki) a thesis propounded by 20th century American analytic philosopher W. V. Quine. The classic statement of this thesis can be found in his 1960 book Word and Object, which gathered together and refined much of Quine's previous work on subjects other than formal logic and set theory. The indeterminacy of translation is also discussed at length in his Ontological Relativity (1968). In these books, Quine considers the methods available to a field linguist attempting to translate a hitherto unknown language. He notes that there are always different ways one might break a sentence into words, and different ways to distribute functions among words. Any hypothesis of translation could be defended only by appeal to context, by determining what other sentences a native would utter. But the same indeterminacy will appear there: any hypothesis can be defended if one adopts enough compensatory hypotheses about other parts of the language.

    You can download a scientific article treating this problem here:
    http://digital.csic.es/bitstream/102...1/indeterm.pdf

  2. #12
    cuneiform is offline Junior Member
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    Re: Gerund question

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    5
    What would you say if I re-write it as follows:

    It is in connection to the runnings (about a machine's turnings on and off).
    I would say that that was not a natural English sentence.

    Here, the definite article should indicate that a machine ran in reality; in other words, "running" was real, as opposed to a running, as a single action that can be conceived mentally.
    I don't think articles alone can make the difference between a real happening and a mental conception.

    Many passages in literature show such differences. Can you give some examples?
    They call such instances "Grammar Synomies with the English Articles".
    Who are 'they'. Can you give some references to "Grammar Synomies with the English Articles"?

    The forum system will not accept the plural form of "running"! I don't understand what you mean by this.
    OK, I will be back in some hours along with many citations. Don't be bother with me. I like the people here and the website also. A dream (just a thought!) of mine = My dream, i.e., the dream that I bore (reality). However, citations from English authors will be much better.

  3. #13
    cuneiform is offline Junior Member
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    Re: Gerund question

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    So which are known to you, and what's your expertise in English, old chap?
    The number of my fingers is dominant over the number of languages that are known to me.
    I consider my knowledge of English "pretty" awful though I made a university 4 1/2 years' linguistics course some 40 years ago, and then I went into scientific research concerning analphabetic languages in Asia studied only phonetically.
    So, my major subject was (general) phonetics (Ph.D.).
    That's why I'm here, a very attractive website with exceptionally nice people.
    I would like to help other people in studying languages as far as I can.
    Last edited by cuneiform; 13-Aug-2012 at 14:55.

  4. #14
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    Re: Gerund question

    Quote Originally Posted by cuneiform View Post
    The number of my fingers is dominant over the number of languages that are known to me. Once again you have produced an unnatural English sentence.
    I consider my knowledge of English "pretty" awful. That's why I'm here, a very attractive website with exceptionally nice people. I would like to help other people in studying languages so as far as I can.
    Your desire to help is appreciated. However, if your knowledge of English is 'pretty awful', then it might be more helpful if you did not respond to questions. Some of your responses have themselves needed correction.

  5. #15
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Re: Gerund question

    Quote Originally Posted by cuneiform View Post
    It has in fact no existentials (notions related to [human] existence); therefore, there are mainly no works on existentialism in this language, and if any available, then they are all translated from other languages. Say, "go" does not imply "how", and you never know, whether "on foot" or "by car" [while studying a foreign language it's very important indeed
    You can take it much further than that- I have studied languages where go/come were very different from the European languages I know, so on a macro scale "go" struggles for meaning before looking at the next concept.

  6. #16
    cuneiform is offline Junior Member
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    Re: Gerund question

    Dear virus99,

    I will add something to my earlier thoughts. Natives have rejected on practical reasons my suggestions, but they could not reject turning to the noun style. What is not natural, should not be used.
    What they have suggested, may have some explanations, which in my opinion are important.
    They approved most shortened forms which are always to prefer due to the Principle of Economy in Languages' Use.
    Please read more to that topic here, download a file:

    http://www.ledonline.it/mpw/allegati...3vicentini.pdf

  7. #17
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Re: Gerund question

    Natives have rejected on practical reasons my suggestions, but they could not reject turning to the noun style.
    I could reject or accept anything I understood. I am unsure what you mean here.

  8. #18
    cuneiform is offline Junior Member
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    Re: Gerund question

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    Your desire to help is appreciated. However, if your knowledge of English is 'pretty awful', then it might be more helpful if you did not respond to questions. Some of your responses have themselves needed correction.
    The only reason why I answered to this question was a fact that this question had been unanswered for a lot of time.
    I thought there was no interest for answering it as I was able to.
    Moderator's decision must be a law to me. If you think I should not, I will not answer any questions.
    At my former website I wrote answers to those questions I thought I was able to.
    Otherwise, only natives may answer all the questions, either by knowledge or intuitively.
    Practice is decisive and has more value than theory.
    I need only natives' approvals, I can find any theoretical grounds by myself (for similar cases in the future).
    But I doubt that natives would not make any mistakes, no matter on which grounds.
    In my native languages I also make mistakes from time to time. So, the best way should be a collective attack.

  9. #19
    cuneiform is offline Junior Member
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    Re: Gerund question

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    I could reject or accept anything I understood. I am unsure what you mean here.
    Dear Tdol, one can reject or accept anything not only at the level of consciousness, but also at the level of sub-consciousness, and unconsciousness. In other words, just intuitively.

  10. #20
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Re: Gerund question

    Quote Originally Posted by cuneiform View Post
    Dear Tdol, one can reject or accept anything not only at the level of consciousness, but also at the level of sub-consciousness, and unconsciousness. In other words, just intuitively.
    Rejection without grounds is not equal to rejection with grounds. You can reject on many grounds, but they are not all equal. This claim is, IMO, very dodgy indeed.

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