Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. #1
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,344
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default even if others used violence against him.

    Does this "used" denote a present counterfactual conditional or a past habitual action? The "colon" seems to make the underlined an appositive, so the time-perspective seems like a present one in the past.
    In plain explanation, does it mean "others wouldn't use violence against him, but in an unlikely case that they use violence..."?

    gz81
    ex)Mahatma Gandhi was a true hero. He had a very important rule for himself: never to use violence in his fights, even if others used violence against him. He continued to fight for the rights of Indians peacefully. And he never used violence all his life.
    Last edited by keannu; 30-Aug-2012 at 15:54.

  2. #2
    Cory Sampson is offline Newbie
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Academic
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    20
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: even if others used violence against him.

    Your instinct here is correct. The "used" here is the hypothetical subjunctive, because the condition of people using violence against him is not necessarily a given. It's similar to saying "even if others were to use violence against him". It indicates the hypothetical potential for violence, rather than past habitual violence.

  3. #3
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,344
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: even if others used violence against him.

    The only one doubt here is - even though hypothetical or any kind of conditional depends on the speaker's attitude - that "others suppressing Gandhi" must have liked to use violence.
    So such violence would have been easily presumed by Gandhi, so I wonder why he didn't use "use" for possible violence considering the political situation.

  4. #4
    Gillnetter is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,696
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: even if others used violence against him.

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    The only one doubt here is - even though hypothetical or any kind of conditional depends on the speaker's attitude - that "others suppressing Gandhi" must have liked to use violence Not so much "liked" as having the potential to do so.
    So such violence would have been easily presumed by Gandhi, so I wonder why he didn't use "use" for possible violence considering the political situation.
    Gandhi would not use violence as a response to violence. The violence against him had to happen first, and then his reaction was to not use violence. So, the violence against him had to occur in the past in order for him to respond.

  5. #5
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,344
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: even if others used violence against him.

    You seem to reverse our conversation between me and Cory.
    Do you mean this "used" doesn't denote hypothetical subjunctive, but a past habitual action - factual conditional? But "even if" is about non-factual events.
    Last edited by keannu; 31-Aug-2012 at 00:06.

  6. #6
    bhaisahab's Avatar
    bhaisahab is offline Moderator
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • England
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    22,536
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: even if others used violence against him.

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    You seem to reverse our conversation between me and Cory.
    Do you mean this "used" doesn't denote hypothetical subjunctive, but a past habitual action - factual conditional? But "even if" is about non-factual events.
    The point is that violence was used against Gandhi and his supporters on several occasions. He, however, had a rule: "never to use violence in his fights, even if others used violence against him" .

  7. #7
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,344
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: even if others used violence against him.

    So you mean Cory's view is correct or Gilnetter's view is correct? Is "used" a past habitual action, not hypothetical subjuctive? What about "even if"? "Even if" goes with non-factual events.

Similar Threads

  1. even if others used violence against him
    By keannu in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 16-Jan-2012, 15:29
  2. Use violence with
    By namloan in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 26-May-2011, 08:06
  3. violence of his childhood
    By lauraguan in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 29-Apr-2010, 06:02
  4. Essay on violence
    By Twisted_Illusion in forum Editing & Writing Topics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-Nov-2009, 02:58
  5. [Essay] Violence in Schools
    By TwistedSister18 in forum Editing & Writing Topics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 26-Jul-2008, 12:29

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •