Diagramming and analysis of subordinated clauses please

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pootle

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Hello again.


Please would someone get me going with one or both of these?

"But the 34-year-old defeated a group of more experienced rivals for the nomination in the solid Tory area by delivering a 'hang 'em and flog 'em' manifesto that had more in common with "On Your Bike' Norman Tebbit than "Hug a Hoodie' Mr Cameron, whose approach she was quick to criticise."

"The woman chosen as the Tories' first female Asian candidate has revealed how she fought off her rivals - by pledging to restore the death penalty and savaging David Cameron's leadership of the party."


I need each pieve to be broken down into subject, verb, complement, adjectival etc.

I'd be ever so grateful.

Many thanks

pootle




 

Frank Antonson

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Dear Pootle,

There is something wrong with the punctuation of the first sentence. It has to do with the apostrophes or quotation marks. That has to be fixed first in order to understand what is meant. That sentence is extremely awkward, but once it has been fixed, it MIGHT make sense. And in that case the sentence can be diagrammed with the Reed-Kellogg system.

The second one isn't so bad. but at the moment, at the moment, I don't have time to send you the diagram.

Maybe later,

Frank
 

pootle

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Dear Pootle,

There is something wrong with the punctuation of the first sentence. It has to do with the apostrophes or quotation marks. That has to be fixed first in order to understand what is meant. That sentence is extremely awkward, but once it has been fixed, it MIGHT make sense. And in that case the sentence can be diagrammed with the Reed-Kellogg system.

The second one isn't so bad. but at the moment, at the moment, I don't have time to send you the diagram.

Maybe later,

Frank

Hi Frank,

Thanks so much for taking a look for me. I think the confusion is the speech marks I have wrapped around the text. I did this to indicate that this is the quote from a newspaper/text to be analysed.

So:

The woman chosen as the Tories' first female Asian candidate has revealed how she fought off her rivals - by pledging to restore the death penalty and savaging David Cameron's leadership of the party.

And:

But the 34-year-old defeated a group of more experienced rivals for the nomination in the solid Tory area by delivering a 'hang 'em and flog 'em' manifesto that had more in common with "On Your Bike' Norman Tebbit than "Hug a Hoodie' Mr Cameron, whose approach she was quick to criticise.



I'm particularly confused with the latter. I think the divisions in clauses are as follows but am unsure:-

Main clause- But the 34 year old defeated a group of more experienced
rivals for the nomination in the sold Tory area

Subordinate clause 1- by delivering a ‘hang’ em and flog ‘em’ manifesto

Subordinate clause 2- that had more in common with ‘On your bike’ Norman Tebbit

Subordinate clause 3 - than ‘Hug a Hoodie’ David Cameron

Subordinate clause 4- whose approach she was quick to criticise


The diagramming is less important than a basic analysis of the clauses. I believe subordinate clause 2 is adjectival but what about the others.

I think Subordinate clause 1 is adverbial because it tells us 'how' she defeated- but what type of adverbial?

Actually- now I'm thinking that the last clause isn't a clause at all, rather a complement on David Cameron in the former clause?

I'd love to hear your thoughts. Diagramming not necessary really- just a way to really show off!

Many thanks

Pootle
 

Frank Antonson

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Pootie, if I had the time to diagram this it could be so much clearer.

But, first, I used American (Reed-Kellog) terms. What you call "subordinate clause #1 is not a clause at all but rather a gerund PHRASE. Also "more...than" is a correlative conjunction. The two words should be understood as working together.

This would simply take me more time than I have right now.

Frank
 

TheParser

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[QUOTE Diagramming not necessary really- just a way to really show off!

[/QUOTE]


Hello, Pootle:

Please! Please! Please! Don't think that! The Reed-Kellogg diagramming is the best way for us ordinary people to really understand the parts of a sentence. It serves as a map. When you get time, you can ask Mr. Antonson for websites where you can start studying it. Or even better, some books.

*****

May I have permission to discuss your second sentence?

But = some books say that when "but" starts a sentence, we can consider it an absolute element. That is, it has no grammatical connection to the sentence. It is diagrammed separately from the rest of the sentence.

1. I agree with you: the "skeleton" of your sentence is: She defeated a group of more experienced rivals in a solid Tory area.

2. How did she defeat them? "By delivering a "hang them and flog them" manifesto."

a. In my humble (very humble) opinion, that is a prepositional phrase that modifies (attaches to) the verb "defeated."

i. by = preposition
ii. delivering a "hang them and flog them" manifesto = gerund phrase that is the object of the preposition "by."

3. "that had more common with Mr. Tibbet than Mr. Cameron."

i. IMHO, my No.3 is an adjective (relative) clause that modifies "manifesto."

4. "Whose approach she was quick to criticise."

i. IMHO, my No. 4. is an adjective clause that modifies Mr. Cameron.

*****

If (a big "if") I am correct, you will see how beautifully all those parts fit together in a Reed-Kellogg diagram when Mr. Antonson has time to make one for us.

Viva Reed-Kellogg!


James
 
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5jj

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"But the 34-year-old defeated a group of more experienced rivals for the nomination in the solid Tory area by delivering a 'hang 'em and flog 'em' manifesto that had more in common with "On Your Bike' Norman Tebbit than "Hug a Hoodie' Mr Cameron, whose approach she was quick to criticise."
There is something wrong with the punctuation of the first sentence. It has to do with the apostrophes or quotation marks. That has to be fixed first in order to understand what is meant. That sentence is extremely awkward, but once it has been fixed, it MIGHT make sense. And in that case the sentence can be diagrammed with the Reed-Kellogg system.
This does rather confirm one of my reservations about Reed-Kellogg. Apart from the two double quotes, which I have highlighted (they need to be single quotes) that sentence, to this speaker of BrE, is not awkward. It may not be particularly elegant, but it does make sense. If R-K can't cope with it, then that seems to me to be a failing of R-K, not of the sentence.
But = some books say that when "but" starts a sentence, we can consider it an absolute element. That is, it has no grammatical connection to the sentence. We can forget it.
Another reservation of mine. Can we really 'forget' part of the sentence before we R-K it? If I start a sentence with 'but', I consider it to be part of the sentence.
 

TheParser

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Another reservation of mine. Can we really 'forget' part of the sentence before we R-K it? If I start a sentence with 'but', I consider it to be part of the sentence.

You are correct. The misstatement has been corrected.
 
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