Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Purdy is offline Newbie
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Interested in Language
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default "were found" versus Past Perfect

    Hello everyone,

    Could you help me clarify 'were found' versus the past perfect tense, please?

    From what I understand, the past perfect tense is composed of the auxiliary "had" (to have: in past simple tense, third person) and the past participle of the main verb. For example: "They had found".

    Then I see "were found" (as in 'they were found') which is the simple past tense of "to be" (third person) and "found". In this case, is 'found' the past participle? Or, is it functioning as an adjective or something?

    Can someone explain to me the difference?

    Thank you!
    Last edited by Purdy; 05-Sep-2012 at 03:36.

  2. #2
    ha179's Avatar
    ha179 is offline Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Vietnamese
      • Home Country:
      • Vietnam
      • Current Location:
      • Vietnam
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    171
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: "were found" versus Past Perfect

    NOT A TEACHER.
    I don't know the original sentence where you take this "were found" from, but I think it's a passive sentence with past tense. Your sentence might have the structure like this: S (plural noun/you) + were found + (somewhere)... My tip for you is wherever you see "be" followed by a part participate form of verb, think of passive voice first.
    Of course it's totally different from past perfect tense, because the structure of this tense is: S + had + past participate
    Hope you find this useful!

  3. #3
    5jj's Avatar
    5jj is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    28,167
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: "were found" versus Past Perfect

    I find - present simple active
    I found - past simple active

    I have found - present perfect active
    I had found - past perfect active

    they are found - present simple passive
    they were found - past simple passive

    they have been found - present perfect passive
    they had beeen found - past perfect passive.

  4. #4
    Purdy is offline Newbie
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Interested in Language
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: "were found" versus Past Perfect

    Thank you!

    The sentence in question is from a rather macabre newspaper clipping:

    "She lived in the area where her body parts were found."

    So, if I were to re-state this as: " Her body parts were found in the area where she lived." Is that not changing the sentence to the "active voice" as opposed to the "passive voice"?

    But, still, as cited in the above response "were found" is the past simple passive, right?

    I still don't get it, really.

    What if I were to state: "The found body parts"? Is that correct? Is it an adjective, then?
    Last edited by Purdy; 05-Sep-2012 at 08:03.

  5. #5
    5jj's Avatar
    5jj is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    28,167
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: "were found" versus Past Perfect

    Quote Originally Posted by Purdy View Post
    "She lived [active] in the area where her body parts were found [passive]."

    [...] "Her body parts were found [passive] in the area where she lived [active]."

    [...] What if I were to state: "The found body parts"? Is that correct? It's not very natural.
    Is it an adjective, then? if you used it, it would be a past particple used as an adjective.
    5

  6. #6
    Purdy is offline Newbie
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Interested in Language
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: "were found" versus Past Perfect

    Thank you!

    I will study these verb forms.

    I'm really looking forward to parsing sentences!


  7. #7
    TheParser is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    5,051
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: "were found" versus Past Perfect

    Quote Originally Posted by Purdy View Post



    "She lived in the area where her body parts were found."
    Hello, Purdy:

    Yes, parsing is great fun. And if you learn the Reed-Kellogg diagramming system, it will be even MORE fun!

    I was wondering if this sentence might be helpful:

    "She lived in the area where the police found her body parts."

    1. As you can see, "the police found her body parts" is active.

    2. Sometimes, it is not that important who did what, so the passive is used:

    "She lived in the area where her body parts were found [by the police]."


    James

  8. #8
    Purdy is offline Newbie
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Interested in Language
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: "were found" versus Past Perfect

    Thank you, James!

    I am so looking forward to improving my knowledge of English grammar; I feel that parsing would be the most thorough approach!

    Is there a particular software that you use for the Reed-Kellogg diagramming system? Or, do you just do it by hand and a piece of paper?

    Thanks ever so much!

  9. #9
    TheParser is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Other
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    5,051
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: "were found" versus Past Perfect

    Hello, Purdy:


    Thank you for your kind note.

    I am really, really, really ( = very, very, very) excited to meet someone who wants to learn the Reed-Kellogg

    diagramming system. I am certainly no expert, but the little that I do know has helped me incredibly much.

    I am an old man (75) who is computer illiterate. I do not have the software necessary to show a diagram on this

    forum.

    I have three respectful suggestions:

    1. When you have time, check out some of the threads in this forum. Many of them contain diagrams. Notice how

    every single word has its place. When you diagram a sentence, you are forced to account for every word. One teaching

    nun once said something to the effect: If you cannot diagram it, don't write it.

    2. Mr. Antonson is the gentleman who presents 95% of the diagrams on this forum. He is a teacher who teaches Reed-

    Kellogg to his students. (They are very lucky. Most American students no longer diagram. So sad!) You can ask him for

    advice about software, books, etc.

    3. When you get time, please google:

    The Basics of Sentence Diagramming Eugene R. Moutoux

    *****

    Mr. Moutoux will get you started.

    Welcome again to the wonderful world of Reed-Kellogg. Oh, I forgot: Ms. Gertrude Stein, an American poet, once said:

    "I really do not know that anything has ever been more exciting than diagramming sentences." I agree with

    her. And I am sure that you, too, will someday agree with her.


    James


    P.S. Excuse me now. I have to copy a sentence from today's newspaper and try to diagram it.

  10. #10
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,151
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: "were found" versus Past Perfect

    Dear Purdy,

    84.3 Reed-Kellogg Sentence Diagramming Begun - YouTube

    That is the link which will plop you right down at the beginning of a complete course that I teach online, for free, about syntax and Reed-Kellogg diagramming.

    You might want to check it out.

    As I say in that video, though, one has to know one's morphology (the parts of speech) before one can successfully describe and diagram syntax (the parts of sentences.)

    I am glad to see your enthusiasm. Sometimes I have been in church and so bored by the sermon that I have begun to diagram sentences from the hymnal!

    It is fun.

    Good luck.

    Frank

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 21-Jun-2012, 11:33
  2. [Grammar] Is it optional to use past perfect tense after "After"
    By kwfine in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 22-Jun-2011, 10:39
  3. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 28-Dec-2006, 03:24
  4. Simple past versus past perfect or pluperfect
    By chrisalor in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-Sep-2006, 20:59
  5. difference BTW "past perfect" and "sim perfect"
    By endeavor6636 in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 23-Jul-2006, 07:13

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •