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  1. #1
    keannu's Avatar
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    Default even if as a factual conditional

    My opinion about "even if" being a factual conditional was denied by many teachers here. They mostly said it's either predictive(possible) or hypothetical. But in this example, this "even if" surely indicates it refers to a habitual action in the past, which is a fact. Don't you think so?

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    ex)There are often many different factors that can affect our decision making. Some of them can lead to poor decisions...Reciprocity is that feeling you get when someone has done something nice for you, and you feel compelled to do something nice for him or her....If someone does us a favor, we feel obligated to return this favor. This, in part, is how the Hare Krishna movement has survived - the Hare Krishnas would give out flowers to people. These people would then feel obligated to give them money, even if the flower was unwanted. Make sure that when you make a decision, you are doing so for the right reasons...

  2. #2
    Tdol is online now Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: even if as a factual conditional

    I'm not entirely convinced that their flowers being unwanted is a habitual action in the past.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: even if as a factual conditional

    habitual event, then.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: even if as a factual conditional

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    habitual event, then.
    No, not even that. I'd call it hypothetical.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: even if as a factual conditional

    What do you mean by "hypothetical"? Do you mean "they possibly unwated the flower" or "they didn't want the flower but supposing they wanted the flower"?

    These people would then feel obligated to give them money, even if the flower was unwanted.
    Read more at http://www.usingenglish.com/forum/as...kkAja8WLlv6.99

  6. #6
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    Default Re: even if as a factual conditional

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    What do you mean by "hypothetical"?
    It is possible that the flower was unwanted.

  7. #7
    Gillnetter is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: even if as a factual conditional

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    My opinion about "even if" being a factual conditional was denied by many teachers here. They mostly said it's either predictive(possible) or hypothetical. But in this example, this "even if" surely indicates it refers to a habitual action in the past, which is a fact. Don't you think so?

    330-240
    ex)There are often many different factors that can affect our decision making. Some of them can lead to poor decisions...Reciprocity is that feeling you get when someone has done something nice for you, and you feel compelled to do something nice for him or her....If someone does us a favor, we feel obligated to return this favor. This, in part, is how the Hare Krishna movement has survived - the Hare Krishnas would give out flowers to people. These people would then feel obligated to give them money, even if the flower was unwanted. Make sure that when you make a decision, you are doing so for the right reasons...
    "The soldiers were told to go in even if it rained". This "even if", which is similar to yours, does not indicate a factual condition or a habitual condition. This "even if" refers to an event which may or may not occur. This, then, is called a hypothetical condition. The recipients of the flowers felt compelled to donate money whether or not the flowers were desired - they may or may not have wanted the flowers.

  8. #8
    Tdol is online now Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: even if as a factual conditional

    Also, the recipients would have received, in most cases, a single flower once (unless unlucky), so it strikes me more as a single even repeated for multiple people than a habit.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: even if as a factual conditional

    I agree that it refers to multiple individual occasions when a flower was offered and the person to whom it was offered, on each occasion "felt obliged to give money for the flower, regardless of whether or not they (singular gender-neutral pronoun) wanted the flower".
    Remember - correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing make posts much easier to read.

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