[Grammar] an idiot of a salesman

Status
Not open for further replies.

Kotfor

Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Ukrainian
Home Country
Belarus
Current Location
Ukraine
There is such a phrase.

Is that idiot of a salesman calling again?

Will the meaning be changed if we say

Is that salesman of an idiot calling again?
 

Chicken Sandwich

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Russian
Home Country
Russian Federation
Current Location
Netherlands
NOT A TEACHER

The second one doesn't make sense to me.

As you said, the first one is idiomatic: an idiot of a salesman, an idiot of a lawyer, an idiot of a doctor, and so on.
 

Kotfor

Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Ukrainian
Home Country
Belarus
Current Location
Ukraine
My fuzzy logic.

A man of importance = 1) First, he is a man 2) he becomes important. (not vice versa )

An idiot of a salesman = 1) First, he becomes an idiot 2) and only after he becomes an idiot he may become a salesman.

I understand that this may not look persuasive, but may be there is something in it. Anyway, I get it.
 

Chicken Sandwich

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Russian
Home Country
Russian Federation
Current Location
Netherlands
My fuzzy logic.

An idiot of a salesman = 1) First, he becomes an idiot 2) and only after he becomes an idiot he may become a salesman.

NOT A TEACHER

No, it doesn't work that way. "An idiot of a salesman" just means that the salesman is an idiot. It doesn't mean that s/he was an idiot prior to becoming a salesman. It's possible that s/he was an idiot prior to becoming a salesman, but that's not the intended meaning of the phrase.

P.S. More precisely, as emsr2d2 said below, s/he is an idiotic salesman. Of course, it's possible that the "idiot of a salesman" is not an idiot when it comes to other aspects of life.
 
Last edited:

emsr2d2

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
Effectively, it means that he's an idiotic salesman.
 

Kotfor

Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Ukrainian
Home Country
Belarus
Current Location
Ukraine
Are there any similar phrases without the word idiot though?
 

Barb_D

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Member Type
Other
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
And that fool of a doctor never thought to ask her what other medications she was taking.
 

Chicken Sandwich

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Russian
Home Country
Russian Federation
Current Location
Netherlands
NOT A TEACHER

"moron of a doctor" also works. Other synonyms of "idiot" can also be used.
 
Last edited:

MartinEnglish

Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
It's usually pejorative:
That bitch of a nurse said that...
That fool of a manager told me that...
In my last job I had a wanker of a boss who..

etc ad nauseum
I can't think of any positive versions! It's an interesting point, never thought about it before.
 

Barb_D

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Member Type
Other
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
That peach of a girl
That sweetheart of a nurse
The gem of a teacher

It works both ways.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top