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    #11

    Re: How to understand them?

    Quote Originally Posted by coolfool View Post
    I'm afraid the actual meaning of the patten under discussion lies more often than not at the following sentence, nowadays, besides the overall general climate or context. What Thatcher actually said, for instance, is "Crime is crime is crime; it is not political."
    Margaret Thatcher was talking about the IRA, and others, in prison, who considered themselves to be political prisoners and not criminals. She was not talking about the specific instances of what individuals had done, but about their actions in general being criminal and not political. They had a number of demands, including not doing prison work or wearing prison clothes. They were not denying what they had done, but regarded them as political acts as freedom fighters, not ordinary criminals, and she said this as a firm way of trying to reject the idea. This context makes not using the article correct, but crime can be both countable and uncountable, while lie cannot. She's using the Gertrude Stein sentence pattern to reject the notion that crime can be political.

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    #12

    Re: How to understand them?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****

    Wow! What a cool (!!!) question!


    1. I was able to find a scholarly book on the Web. The author even draws a diagram to explain it, but it was too difficult for

    me to understand.

    2. He says that such sentences are an example of clause chaining.

    3. He discusses "A lie is a lie is a lie."

    a. He says that the noun phrase ("a lie") functions simultaneously [at the same time] as the predicate

    nominative in one clause and as the subject of the following clause.

    i. I guess that he means the second "a lie" is the subjective complement of the first "a lie" and is also the subject to which

    the third "a lie" refers.

    b. The scholar writes: "I would say that the clausal repetition renders the expression emphatic."

    4. You can read his analysis by going to Google and typing in these words:

    Grammar and Conceptualization page 168 a lie is a lie

    *****

    This 1999 book was written by Dr. Ronald W. Langacker.

    Thanks a million for the question. I learned the term "clause chaining" today -- thanks to you and Dr. Langacker.


    James
    "The pragmatic inanity of the mentality driving this is self-evident: as I discussed yesterday (and many other times), continuous killing does not eliminate violence aimed at the US but rather guarantees its permanent expansion. As a result, wrote Miller, "officials said no clear end is in sight" when it comes to the war against "terrorists" because, said one official, "we can't possibly kill everyone who wants to harm us" but trying is "a necessary part of what we do". Of course, the more the US kills and kills and kills, the more people there are who "want to harm us". That's the logic that has resulted in a permanent war on terror."

    More:
    Siamese twins of the 'war on terror': 20 more years whether Obama or Romney wins

    Dear James, can we say that the underlined part is clause chaining?

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    #13

    Re: How to understand them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Odessa Dawn View Post

    Dear James, can we say that the underlined part is clause chaining?

    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    Great question.

    I do not know the answer.

    I shall not be able to sleep until I know the answer.

    Hopefully, someone will answer us -- so that I can get some sleep.

    If you find the answer, please share it.


    James

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    #14

    Re: How to understand them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Odessa Dawn View Post
    Of course, the more the US kills and kills and kills, the more people there are who "want to harm us".


    Dear James, can we say that the underlined part is clause chaining?
    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****



    Hello,


    Thanks to Google books, I think that I shall be able to get some sleep tonight!

    Apparently, at least one term for such an expression is verbal reduplication.

    *****

    Here are three references that I found:

    1. The Scene of Linguistic Action by Rene Dirven.

    a. An example of "repetition of the verb" is "I'm talking, talking, talking all the time."

    [My note: As you know, a comma often is a substitute for the word "and." So maybe that sentence

    means "I'm talking and talking and talking all the time."]

    2. Marathi by R. Pandharipande. Marathi is a language spoken by 8% of the people in India.

    a. The author calls this sentence an example of "verbal reduplication":

    ti bol bol bolli = She talk talk talked. = She talked a lot.

    3. The Handbook of Language Contact was edited by Raymond Hickey.

    a. He says that in Singlish [a form of English spoken in Singapore], they have this sentence:

    We all eat - eat - eat = keep eating/ eat a lot.

    *****

    So I guess that we could say/ write:

    Country X kills and killls and kills.

    Country X kills, kills, kills.


    *****

    I learned something new about English -- thanks to your question and Google. Now I can turn off my

    computer for the day.


    James

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    #15

    Re: How to understand them?



    We have ...
    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    Clause chaining
    Then we have ...
    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    Verbal reduplication
    "Towards that end, they set out to control not only the economy, not only property, not only the political sphere, but also sports, leisure time, hospitals, universities, summer camps, children's afterschool activities, art, music, and museums."

    More: The Collaborator's Song - By Anne Applebaum | Foreign Policy


    Thank you so much for your definitive answers. What do we call the underlined parts, dear James?



    "They did not necessarily believe that idea that the party, the party, the party is always right, but nor did they stop singing the song."

    More: The Collaborator's Song - By Anne Applebaum | Foreign Policy

    Also, I think we can say that the underlined part right here is a
    clause chaining, can't we?

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    #16

    Re: How to understand them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Odessa Dawn View Post





    "Towards that end, they set out to control not only the economy, not only property, not only the political sphere, but also sports, leisure time, hospitals, universities, summer camps, children's afterschool activities, art, music, and museums."



    What do we call the underlined parts



    "They did not necessarily believe that idea that the party, the party, the party is always right, but nor did they stop singing the song."


    Also, I think we can say that the underlined part right here is a
    clause chaining, can't we?
    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    Thanks to you, I have learned "clause chaining" and "verbal reduplication."

    I have no idea as to what those examples of yours should be called in grammatical terms.

    Hopefully, some of the wonderful teachers (and well-informed non-teachers) will tell us.


    James

    P.S. I shall say, however, that I am 50% "sure" that your last sentence is not an example of clause chaining, for the subject
    ("the party") is simply being repeated.

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    #17

    Re: How to understand them?

    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    Good morning from sunny California!

    I have not found the answer, but I have found some items that may interest you.

    1. One source* says that REPETITION is "an instance of using a word, phrase, or clause more than once in a short passage -- dwelling on a point." [dwell on a point = to focus attention on a point.]

    a. This source gives this example from 1970's England:

    Spam, spam, spam, spam. Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!

    [Spam is a meat product. I love it!]

    2. Another source ** says that repetition is used to repeat "for emphasis or to slow a moment." Its example is: And he thought and thought and thought about them.''

    It is also used for emphasis and lyricism: Hello Hello Hello / Cold Cold Cold. ["lyricism" = enthusiasm , especially when unrestrained and exaggerated. Reference: Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary.]

    3. Another source*** gives this example of repetition: Everywhere I looked, there were children, children. (I believe the source feels this example of repetition "indicates extent.")

    4. Finally, another source**** reminds us of a repetition that is used by many native speakers:

    There are teachers and there are teachers. = There are good teachers, and there are bad teachers.

    a. Here is my bad example:

    Tom: Are you voting tomorrow?
    Mona: No. All politicians are the same.
    Tom: Well, there are politicians and there are politicians. I think that you should really vote tomorrow.
    [ = There are good politicians and there are bad politicians. Contrary to how you may feel, you should vote tomorrow.]


    James


    * Mr. Richard Norquist's grammar advice website.
    ** Mesdames Susan Ehmann and Kellyann Gayer, I Can Write Like That! (Google books).
    *** Professor Quirk (and colleagues), A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language (1985), page 1,441.
    **** Professors Quirk and Greenbaum, A Concise Grammar of Contemporary English (1973), page 275.

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