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  1. #1
    wotcha's Avatar
    wotcha is offline Senior Member
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    Default The general commanded the Officer's Club be off limits to the new recuit.

    1. The general commanded the Officer's Club be off limits to the new recruit.

    My grammar books says the above is ungrammatical because we can't omit 'that'

    after command. Is my grammar book right?


    also,


    2. The general commanded the Officer's Club to be off limits to the new recruit.


    What about sentence 2? Are both 1 and 2 grammatical?

  2. #2
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: The general commanded the Officer's Club be off limits to the new recuit.

    I wouldn't use either of them.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: The general commanded the Officer's Club be off limits to the new recuit.

    There's no need for "that."
    She ordered the tarragon be omitted from the soup.
    The Red Queen ordered Allice's head be removed.
    I'm not a teacher, but I write for a living. Please don't ask me about 2nd conditionals, but I'm a safe bet for what reads well in (American) English.

  4. #4
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: The general commanded the Officer's Club be off limits to the new recuit.

    Ordered is a much better verb.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: The general commanded the Officer's Club be off limits to the new recuit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barb_D View Post
    There's no need for "that."
    She ordered the tarragon be omitted from the soup.
    The Red Queen ordered Allice's head be removed.
    I accept that those are correct, but I think they are unnatural. We'd normally say:

    He ordered the chef to remove the tarragon from the soup.
    The Red Queen ordered the (whoever) to remove Alice's head/to chop off Alice's head.

    Please do not edit your question after it has received a response. Such editing can make the response hard for others to understand.


  6. #6
    SoothingDave is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: The general commanded the Officer's Club be off limits to the new recuit.

    I think that new recruits are not officers, so they should know not to go to the Officers' Club.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: The general commanded the Officer's Club be off limits to the new recuit.

    Regardless of the rest of it, the general didn't command or order The Officer's Club to do or to be anything.

    He ordered that the Officers' Club be off limits to new recruits.
    He ordered the new recruits to consider the Officers' Club off limits.
    Remember - correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing make posts much easier to read.

  8. #8
    Barb_D's Avatar
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    Default Re: The general commanded the Officer's Club be off limits to the new recuit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    Ordered is a much better verb.
    So much so that I was unaware that I'd even substituted it!
    I'm not a teacher, but I write for a living. Please don't ask me about 2nd conditionals, but I'm a safe bet for what reads well in (American) English.

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