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Thread: will after when

  1. #1
    Joern Matthias is offline Junior Member
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    Red face will after when

    I encountered a very interesting phenomenon when reading.

    Here is the sentence that drew my immediate attention:


    'I will be on holiday till the end of November, when I will return to London.'

    I thought 'will' was never used with time conjunctions like when, after, before
    and until. While doing some research on this, I learned that 'will' can be used after
    'when' meaning 'and then'.

    Is this really good to use 'will', even if 'when' means 'and then'?

    What about this sentence:

    I will prepare a lot of good food, when we have a party tonight.


    Could this sentence also be put like this?


    'I will prepare a lot of good food, when we will have a party tonight.' meaning
    'I will prepare a lot of good food, and then we will have a party tonight.'

    Hello from Bavaria

    Joern

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    Default Re: will after when

    Quote Originally Posted by Joern Matthias View Post
    I thought 'will' was never used with time conjunctions like when, after, before
    and until. While doing some research on this, I learned that 'will' can be used after
    'when' meaning 'and then'.

    Is this really good to use 'will', even if 'when' means 'and then'?
    It's fine. I think of 'when' as suggesting at which time.
    What about this sentence:

    I will prepare a lot of good food, when we have a party tonight.
    This suggests that you will be preparing the food while the party is going on.
    'I will prepare a lot of good food, when we will have a party tonight.' meaning
    'I will prepare a lot of good food, and then we will have a party tonight.'
    No. You could say, "I will be preparing food until eight, when the party will begin".
    Please do not edit your question after it has received a response. Such editing can make the response hard for others to understand.


  3. #3
    Joern Matthias is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: will after when

    Thank you very much for your answer!

    I found another sentence like this:

    'If all goes to plan, a rocket will manoeuvre to within a mile the space station before moving alongside, when astonauts on board will attempt to tether it with a robotic arm.'

    Is 'will attempt ' correct or should it read ' when astronauts attempt to tether it with a robotic arm.'

    Joern

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    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: will after when

    'Will attempt' is what we want.
    Please do not edit your question after it has received a response. Such editing can make the response hard for others to understand.


  5. #5
    Joern Matthias is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: will after when

    Hello 5jj,

    Thanks a lot-great help!

    Joern

  6. #6
    TheParser is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: will after when

    Quote Originally Posted by Joern Matthias View Post




    'I will be on holiday till the end of November, when I will return to London.'

    I thought 'will' was never used with time conjunctions like when.

    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****



    Hello, Mr. Matthias:



    1. I found your question very interesting. So I checked my books and found some information to better understand this matter. I am delighted to share it with you.

    2. I think that sentence comes from Mr. Alexander's Longman English Grammar. Am I correct? Therefore, I shan't discuss it further.

    3. Every word that follows comes from an expert. Not one word is mine. (For emphasis only, I have underlined some words or used boldface type.)

    *****

    "...the future tense with will is not used in conditional clauses."
    "If he comes next week, what shall we ask him to do?"

    "When will is not an auxiliary for the future tense but a verb indicating or asking about willingness, it may occur in an if- clause."
    "If you help me, we can finish by six."
    "If you will help me (if you will be so kind as to help me), we can finish by six."

    Source: A.S Hornby, A Guide to Patterns and Usage in English (1954), page 236.


    *****

    "In clauses after conjunctions of time this use of the [p]resent tense is the rule, because futurity is sufficiently indicated in the main verb."
    "Shall there be gallowes standing when thou art king?"

    "Note the difference between the two clauses in:

    "We do not know when he will come, but when he comes he will not find us ungrateful."

    [My note: I guess "will come" refers to volition/ willingness; "comes" refers to the future.]


    Thank you for your question. I learned a lot.


    James

    P.S. OMG! I forgot to credit the last section to Professor Otto Jespersen in his 1933 Essentials of English Grammar, page 239.
    Last edited by TheParser; 02-Dec-2012 at 10:49.

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    Default Re: will after when

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    "We do not know when he will come, but when he comes he will not find us ungrateful."

    [My note: I guess "will come" refers to volition/ willingness; "comes" refers to the future.]
    No. We cannot tell from the context whether certainty or volition is implied. We use 'will' in the first clause because the first 'when' is not a conjunction of time as such. It has the idea of the time at which. The second 'when' is a conjunction of time.
    Please do not edit your question after it has received a response. Such editing can make the response hard for others to understand.


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