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Thread: Do + S ...

  1. #1
    notletrest is offline Senior Member
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    Default Do + S ...

    Hi, A happy new year to you!
    Are these acceptable?
    1.Bless God you!
    2.Win we the war!
    3.A success be you this time!
    If not , why?
    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Raymott's Avatar
    Raymott is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: Do + S ...

    Quote Originally Posted by notletrest View Post
    Hi, A happy new year to you!
    Are these acceptable?
    1.Bless God you!
    2.Win we the war!
    3.A success be you this time!
    If not , why?
    Thanks!
    No, they aren't right. The word order is wrong.

  3. #3
    notletrest is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Do + S ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    No, they aren't right. The word order is wrong.
    But I came across the following:
    1.Suffice it to say that I am to blame for all this. (suffice = bless, it = you, logically.)
    2.Fare you well, fair gentlemen. Now then, return we to this all important subject.(Vi + Subject = My win +we +object ).
    3.So be it! = A success be you (this time),logically.
    I don't know why the word order of my sentences is wrong.
    Hoping for more explanations!
    Thank you !
    Last edited by notletrest; 01-Jan-2013 at 07:49. Reason: complement

  4. #4
    emsr2d2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do + S ...

    Quote Originally Posted by notletrest View Post
    But I came across the following:
    1.Suffice it to say that I am to blame for all this. (suffice = bless, it = you, logically.)
    2.Fare you well, fair gentlemen. Now then, return we to this all important subject.(Vi + Subject = My win +we +object ).
    3.So be it! = A success be you (this time),logically.
    I don't know why the word order of my sentences is wrong.
    Hoping for more explanations!
    Thank you !
    There are certain standard and recognised phrases in English which use a very specific word order. The construction cannot simply be applied to every sentence.

    Suffice to say = It is enough to say ...
    Fare you well = goodbye (although it actually means I hope you continue to be in good health, I think)
    So be it! - Let it be this way.

    The first is still used in BrE but not by everybody.
    The second would only be used if you were trying to use old-fashioned English.
    The third is also still used but as a standard phrase.

    The word order of your sentences is wrong simply because, as I said, you can't apply the word order of specific (and quite old) phrases to all English and expect it to work.
    Remember - correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing make posts much easier to read.

  5. #5
    BobK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do + S ...

    notlerest: 'suffice' doesn't mean 'bless'. It means 'be sufficient'.

    The fossilized phrase 'Suffice it to say' means 'let it be sufficient to say'; a more modern idiom is 'Enough said' - but, unlike 'suffice it to say', this follows the thing said: 'I shouldn't have done it. I'm sorry. Enough said'.

    You'll have noticed that I keep saying 'Suffice it to say'. This uses the subjunctive, which is hardly used in informal British English. And as both 'it' and 'to' are unstressed in that phrase, they are easily heard as a single /t/ followed by a schwa - particularly by habitual non-users of the subjunctive. This form is widely used, and has become almost as common as the fuller form: BNC has 53 instances of 'suffice to say' and 88 of 'suffice it to say'.

    In COCA, on the other hand, which is based on N. American usage, has 376 (377 if you include 'sufficeit to say', of which there is a single instance which I found by accident ), and only 97 of 'suffice to say'. And that balance makes sense, considering the relative strength of the subjunctive in American English.

    b

  6. #6
    emsr2d2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do + S ...

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    notlerest: 'suffice' doesn't mean 'bless'. It means 'be sufficient'.

    b
    Just for info, Bob, I initially thought that the OP was trying to say that "suffice" meant "bless". I worked out though, that he/she was simply trying to equate the word order of "Suffice + it + to say" with "Bless + God + you" (ie verb + person ...).
    Remember - correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing make posts much easier to read.

  7. #7
    BobK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do + S ...

    Aha - I couldn't think why s/he assumed that odd equivalence!

    b

  8. #8
    notletrest is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Do + S ...

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    Aha - I couldn't think why s/he assumed that odd equivalence!

    b
    Dear two teachers,Bobk and emsr, I am sorry to take you too much time to help me.In this post I want to settle the problem :”How can we use such old English pattern i.e. Verb + subjet + … to express Wish freely today?” So first I made three sentences,later I quoted four examples and intended to illustrate them, especially the one: Now then, return we to this all important subject.”
    Or in other way “What requirements are the old pattern verb + subject …of
    expressing wish?”After studying you,it seems to me that we mustn't use such patern to express our wishes freely,we can only copy them word for word and not out side of them.Is it true?
    Thanks!I am all ears!







  9. #9
    Rover_KE is offline Moderator
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    Default Re: Do + S ...

    You certainly live up to your name, notletrest.

    Please reread this comment from ems:

    There are certain standard and recognised phrases in English which use a very specific word order. The construction cannot simply be applied to every sentence.
    I am closing this thread as our time can be better spent answering questions on modern English.

    You could try asking your question again in the General Language Discussions forum. Anyone with anything to add can do so there.

    Rover

  10. #10
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do + S ...

    Quote Originally Posted by notletrest View Post
    I want to settle the problem :”How can we use such old English pattern i.e. Verb + subjet + … to express Wish freely today?”
    We can't, as ems has already told you: "There are certain standard and recognised phrases in English which use a very specific word order. The construction cannot simply be applied to every sentence."
    Please do not edit your question after it has received a response. Such editing can make the response hard for others to understand.


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