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  1. #1
    thincat is offline Member
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    Default When 2 alveolar sounds (eg. /d/ and /t/) come together, can we hear the first one?

    Hi,

    I am learning English as my second language. I would like to know when two alveolar sounds come together, do native speakers pronounce the first one?

    For example, although IPAs given for "partly" and "rapidly" are /ˈpɑːtli/ and /ˈrępɪdli/, as /t/,/d/ and /l/ are of the same place of articulation, do native speakers omit /t/ and /d/ (or make /t/ and /d/ to be something silent) and simply pronounce them like /ˈpɑːli/ and /ˈrępɪli/?

    When I listen to the online dictionary pronunciations, it seems that no /d/ and /t/ sounds can be heard in these two words.

    Here are the links of the online Oxford Dictionary with recorded pronunciations:
    rapid - Definition and pronunciation | Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com
    partly - Definition and pronunciation | Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com

    Thank you!

  2. #2
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    5jj is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: When 2 alveolar sounds (eg. /d/ and /t/) come together, can we hear the first one

    In Both BrE and AME versions of 'rapidly', I heard the 'd'. I also heard the 't' in the BrE version of 'partly'. It was completely unexploded in the AmE version, but it was there. That AmE version was definitely not /ˈpɑːli/

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    raindoctor is offline Member
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    Default Re: When 2 alveolar sounds (eg. /d/ and /t/) come together, can we hear the first one

    You can release a stop consonant in many ways.
    1. No release at all
    2. open release
    3. nasal release
    4. lateral release

    In dl, tl clusters, you can laterally release d/t; this is one way of presenting. The other way is to look at how you transition from one consonant to another consonant: open transition vs close transition. In English, they are close transitions. Open transitions sound foreign: imagine those foreign speakers who appear to be adding a vowel between consonants.

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    thincat is offline Member
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    Default Re: When 2 alveolar sounds (eg. /d/ and /t/) come together, can we hear the first one

    Thanks a lot for all of your comments. When I re-listen to the dictionary pronunciation several times, I guess the speakers "blend" the two consonants so that /t/ and /d/ sound unexploded and less clear to a foreign speaker like me.

    I have tried to record my own pronunciation of the two words. In sound files, "partly1" and "rapidly1," I attempted to make the /t/ and /d/ more explicit, at least to myself. In sound files, "partly2" and "rapidly2," I tried to imitate the dictionary pronunciation.

    If I would appreciate it very much if you would comment on my pronunciation and tell me which ones are better.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  5. #5
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    Default Re: When 2 alveolar sounds (eg. /d/ and /t/) come together, can we hear the first one

    'partly 2' is much more natural than 'partly 1'. I did not observe a great difference between the two 'rapidly' files.

  6. #6
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    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Default Re: When 2 alveolar sounds (eg. /d/ and /t/) come together, can we hear the first one

    Really. I'd have it the other way round. I can't detect any sort of /l/ in partly 2.

    (Incidentally, thincat, it's /bɪkɒz/. You make the second vowel more like /ɔ:/ - as it is in 'cause'. )

    b

  7. #7
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: When 2 alveolar sounds (eg. /d/ and /t/) come together, can we hear the first one

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    Really. I'd have it the other way round. I can't detect any sort of /l/ in partly 2.
    I've listened again. I still think the /t/ is less unnatural* in #2 than in #1, and the 'l' is clear enough to me, except perhaps in the very first 'partly'.


    *perhaps 'much more natural was a little too positive.

  8. #8
    BobK's Avatar
    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Default Re: When 2 alveolar sounds (eg. /d/ and /t/) come together, can we hear the first one

    Something is audible where the (theoretical) /l/ should be in partly 2, but it sounds to me more like [d]. Maybe this is because the speaker isn't managing the lateral release properly, so that when released it sounds like a voiced plosive. But your ear has been trained more recently than mine.

    b

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