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  1. #1
    thincat is offline Member
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    When 2 alveolar sounds (eg. /d/ and /t/) come together, can we hear the first one?

    Hi,

    I am learning English as my second language. I would like to know when two alveolar sounds come together, do native speakers pronounce the first one?

    For example, although IPAs given for "partly" and "rapidly" are /ˈpɑːtli/ and /ˈrępɪdli/, as /t/,/d/ and /l/ are of the same place of articulation, do native speakers omit /t/ and /d/ (or make /t/ and /d/ to be something silent) and simply pronounce them like /ˈpɑːli/ and /ˈrępɪli/?

    When I listen to the online dictionary pronunciations, it seems that no /d/ and /t/ sounds can be heard in these two words.

    Here are the links of the online Oxford Dictionary with recorded pronunciations:
    rapid - Definition and pronunciation | Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com
    partly - Definition and pronunciation | Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com

    Thank you!

  2. #2
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    5jj is offline VIP Member
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    Re: When 2 alveolar sounds (eg. /d/ and /t/) come together, can we hear the first one

    In Both BrE and AME versions of 'rapidly', I heard the 'd'. I also heard the 't' in the BrE version of 'partly'. It was completely unexploded in the AmE version, but it was there. That AmE version was definitely not /ˈpɑːli/

  3. #3
    raindoctor is offline Member
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    Re: When 2 alveolar sounds (eg. /d/ and /t/) come together, can we hear the first one

    You can release a stop consonant in many ways.
    1. No release at all
    2. open release
    3. nasal release
    4. lateral release

    In dl, tl clusters, you can laterally release d/t; this is one way of presenting. The other way is to look at how you transition from one consonant to another consonant: open transition vs close transition. In English, they are close transitions. Open transitions sound foreign: imagine those foreign speakers who appear to be adding a vowel between consonants.

  4. #4
    thincat is offline Member
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    Re: When 2 alveolar sounds (eg. /d/ and /t/) come together, can we hear the first one

    Thanks a lot for all of your comments. When I re-listen to the dictionary pronunciation several times, I guess the speakers "blend" the two consonants so that /t/ and /d/ sound unexploded and less clear to a foreign speaker like me.

    I have tried to record my own pronunciation of the two words. In sound files, "partly1" and "rapidly1," I attempted to make the /t/ and /d/ more explicit, at least to myself. In sound files, "partly2" and "rapidly2," I tried to imitate the dictionary pronunciation.

    If I would appreciate it very much if you would comment on my pronunciation and tell me which ones are better.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  5. #5
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    Re: When 2 alveolar sounds (eg. /d/ and /t/) come together, can we hear the first one

    'partly 2' is much more natural than 'partly 1'. I did not observe a great difference between the two 'rapidly' files.

  6. #6
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    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Re: When 2 alveolar sounds (eg. /d/ and /t/) come together, can we hear the first one

    Really. I'd have it the other way round. I can't detect any sort of /l/ in partly 2.

    (Incidentally, thincat, it's /bɪkɒz/. You make the second vowel more like /ɔ:/ - as it is in 'cause'. )

    b

  7. #7
    5jj's Avatar
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    Re: When 2 alveolar sounds (eg. /d/ and /t/) come together, can we hear the first one

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    Really. I'd have it the other way round. I can't detect any sort of /l/ in partly 2.
    I've listened again. I still think the /t/ is less unnatural* in #2 than in #1, and the 'l' is clear enough to me, except perhaps in the very first 'partly'.


    *perhaps 'much more natural was a little too positive.

  8. #8
    BobK's Avatar
    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Re: When 2 alveolar sounds (eg. /d/ and /t/) come together, can we hear the first one

    Something is audible where the (theoretical) /l/ should be in partly 2, but it sounds to me more like [d]. Maybe this is because the speaker isn't managing the lateral release properly, so that when released it sounds like a voiced plosive. But your ear has been trained more recently than mine.

    b

  9. #9
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    Re: When 2 alveolar sounds (eg. /d/ and /t/) come together, can we hear the first one

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    ... your ear has been trained more recently than mine.b
    Less long ago than yours.

  10. #10
    thincat is offline Member
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    Re: When 2 alveolar sounds (eg. /d/ and /t/) come together, can we hear the first one

    Thanks a lot for all of your comments.
    I try to make the recording of "partly" once again and attempt to pronounce the /l/ sound more like a /l/ instead of a /d/. I guess this is the best I can as I am somehow restricted by my mother language.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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