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  1. #21
    Grumpy's Avatar
    Grumpy is offline Senior Member
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    Re: What did you guys order?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    Oh, ems. You and I are beginning to sound our age - and you still have a long way to go to catch up with me. If it wouldn't breach the rules, I'd invite you to join my branch of the Grumpy Old Men's Club. It's cozy there at this time of the year, roasting our chestnuts and toasting our toes in front of the open fire while the buxom serving wenches bring us our flagons of mulled ale to quaff.
    I thought I'd already occupied that particular niche...
    Bah, humbug!
    I'm not a teacher of English, but I have spoken it for (almost) all of my life....

  2. #22
    Will Lake is offline Newbie
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    Re: What did you guys order?

    Quote Originally Posted by emsr2d2 View Post
    I don't have much of a problem with the feminine version of a noun which used to only have a male version but I don't think it should be obligatory and I certainly can't see how anyone could be offended by the name of a job. It's this bizarre attempt to make everything sex-less (gender neutral) that I can't understand.

    If the chair of a board is male, then he's the chairman. If the chair of a board is female, then she's the chairwoman. I don't think we should have to create the word "chairperson" just to keep everyone happy.
    I agree. A waiter is a man and waitress is a woman.

    I think people who get offended by these things have too much of an easy life without the need to worry about 'real life' problems!

  3. #23
    5jj's Avatar
    5jj is offline VIP Member
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    Re: What did you guys order?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will Lake View Post
    I agree. A waiter is a man and waitress is a woman.

    I think people who get offended by these things have too much of an easy life without the need to worry about 'real life' problems!
    We have teachers, bank clerks, doctors, judges, etc who may happen to be male or female. Is it really important for us to specify the gender of the person who serves us in a restaurant?

    It is true that politically correct language has sometimes resulted in absurd situations, but many people feel that getting rid of male-oriented language has played its part in removing obstacles to women's rightful place in society. Many editresses and actresses, for example, wished to be treated as editors and actors, i.e., people who edited and acted, not as female editors and actors.

    Some traditionalists claimed that, with words ending in -man, the weak ending /mən/ was gender-free. That may have been true of 'chairman', but was not true in other cases. In my youth, we all knew that a policeman's job was to keep our society free from crime. A policewoman's job was to look after young and female victims of crime. The Women's Royal Naval Service, Women's Royal Air Force and the Women's Royal Army Corps were for (female) people who provided administrative and other support services. The real job of the services, (whose names did not need to include the word Men's) was done by men.

    If accepting 'chairperson' or 'chair' instead of the unnecessary gender-differentiating 'chairman' and 'chairwoman' is something we have to put up with as part of getting rid of prejudice against women, then I can live with it.

    I am fortunate in being male. I say fortunate, not because I think that males are 'better' in any way than females, but because it has made life simpler for me. My gender, my ethnicity, my height (!) and my accent are some of the things that have given me an unfair advantage in life. I am in favour of our being more careful about words if this can help remove unfair disadvantages from others.

    It took some time for some white people to accept that the N-word was offensive to those it was used of. I hope it doesn't take us quite so long to realise that '-ess' words can appear offensive to those they are used of.

  4. #24
    Lyra_E is offline Newbie
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    Re: What did you guys order?

    Quote Originally Posted by emsr2d2 View Post
    "I can't be doing with" means "I'm not interested in" or "I can't stand" or "I think ... is ridiculous" or something similar. It's hard to give an exact definition.

    PC = Political Correctness.

    Basically, I think the obsession with having to make sure that everyone is included in every description of everything is nonsense. I don't know a single "waitress" who is upset if the staff at the restaurant she works in happen to be referred to as "waiters".
    It can become ridiculous. For example, the metal cover over a hole in the road leading to the sewers in the UK is called a "manhole cover". Apparently, some people thought that was sexist and suggested that we all call it a "personhole cover". Absolutely ridiculous.
    Realy? Do they also want to change manual to personual? Ok funy thing is the first time I saw this word I was confussed. I was thinking 'is this word meas hole on people?'

  5. #25
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Re: What did you guys order?

    Here's a picture of a manhole and its cover:P Bits of programming: Manhole puzzle

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