Help understanding the word "CONTAIN" in certain usages

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alkaspeltzar

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What do we really mean when we say:

"The list contains the people" or "My ideas are contained in the book"

I get contained can mean hold, as in "my cup holds/contains water", but in my two examples above, isn't it being used abstractly? I mean a list is not physically holding people, but just mentioning them. As are my idea, they are more or less represented or embodied by the book.

So it begs the question, what does contain mean really in these examples and how can they use it?

Just confused, i read the dictionaries, but then seems to just confuse me more and give little help. Hoping someone could dumb down the explanation of the meaning for me. Thanks
 

bhaisahab

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What do we really mean when we say:

"The list contains the people" or "My ideas are contained in the book"

I get contained can mean hold, as in "my cup holds/contains water", but in my two examples above, isn't it being used abstractly? I mean a list is not physically holding people, but just mentioning them. As are my idea, they are more or less represented or embodied by the book.

So it begs the question, what does contain mean really in these examples and how can they use it?

Just confused, i read the dictionaries, but then seems to just confuse me more and give little help. Hoping someone could dumb down the explanation of the meaning for me. Thanks

What do you find difficult about this definition? contain verb (HOLD) - definition in British English Dictionary & Thesaurus - Cambridge Dictionary Online
 

alkaspeltzar

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I guess what I find difficult is what someone means when they say "The list contains people"

To me, the list is not containing anything, just listing it. So the definition of contain as hold, sounds wrong.

OR by contain, do they mean "just to include, have to do with or associated within"?

That is the part of the definition i do not get and i am just confused by. So I am looking for more clarification on the definition. Most dictionaries just provide synomoyns, it is not helpful
 

bhaisahab

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I guess what I find difficult is what someone means when they say "The list contains people"

To me, the list is not containing anything, just listing it. So the definition of contain as hold, sounds wrong.

OR by contain, do they mean "just to include, have to do with or associated within"?

That is the part of the definition i do not get and i am just confused by. So I am looking for more clarification on the definition. Most dictionaries just provide synomoyns, it is not helpful

I find "My ideas are contained in the book" perfectly acceptable, the sentence fits the definition I posted perfectly. I don't find "This list contains the people coming to the party" very natural, however. I would be much more likely to say "This is a list of the people coming to the party"
 

alkaspeltzar

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Just answer me this, does the word contain mean something has to be physically contained, like water in a jar or garbage in a bag?

Or can it also mean contain, as in embodied or held within, in more an abstract sense such as the example "my ideas are contain in the book"....seems to me we use contain to explain thing, not necessary tangiable that are referred to or 'contained' within something. Would this be a correct assumption?
 

bhaisahab

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Just answer me this, does the word contain mean something has to be physically contained, like water in a jar or garbage in a bag?

Or can it also mean contain, as in embodied or held within, in more an abstract sense such as the example "my ideas are contain in the book"....seems to me we use contain to explain thing, not necessary tangiable that are referred to or 'contained' within something. Would this be a correct assumption?

"...can it also mean contain, as in embodied or held within, in more of an abstract sense such as the example "my ideas are contained in the book?"
Yes.
 

emsr2d2

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I would say that if your ideas are contained in a book, then they are physically contained. Your ideas have been converted to words, the words are on pages, and those pages are contained inside the front and back covers of the book.
 

alkaspeltzar

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Thank you emsr2d2 and bhaisahab

I think i understand now. I was trying to think of 'contain' as only meaning one could contain physical things. But I see now that was wrong. I see that the word has different senses, and can be used to indicated something, such as a book has/represents the ideas through the words and the pages, thus containing.

So to answer my question, contain can mean to physically have physical things, or to include/hold within in more abstract contexts such as the case of the ideas. I also see now many dictionaries define 'contain' as to embrace, to incorporate, to embody, given such examples as shown above.

Thanks for making it clear.
 

emsr2d2

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Thank you emsr2d2 and bhaisahab

I think i understand now. I was trying to think of 'contain' as only meaning one could contain physical things. But I see now that was wrong. I see that the word has different senses, and can be used to indicated something, such as a book has/represents the ideas through the words and the pages, thus containing.

So to answer my question, contain can mean to physically have physical things, or to include/hold within in more abstract contexts such as the case of the ideas. I also see now many dictionaries define 'contain' as to embrace, to incorporate, to embody, given such examples as shown above.

Thanks for making it clear.

Dictionaries don't embrace or embody words or definitions. They contain them. They list them.
 

alkaspeltzar

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Dictionaries don't embrace or embody words or definitions. They contain them. They list them.

I hope this is not to confuse me more. I agree with you.Yes I do know the dictionary contains words.

What i was saying earlier is I see now, reading the dictionaries alittle more, that the word "contain" has been defined as 'to embrace, to include or to embody" which makes alot of sense. Many times this definition was given when the item being contained, was more of an abstraction.
 

emsr2d2

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You're right. I slightly misread what you wrote about "embrace" etc so I apologise if I confused you even more!
 

alkaspeltzar

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I am still confused

I know contain means to hold in a volume or area.
But how does it work in this example " the list contains the groceries".....there are no physical groceries CONTAINED there, only listed, so what is it that they mean or how is this word being used? Do they mean the groceries are more less expressed, included...one defintion is contain means to 'have as contents, what is spoken or written about" Is this true, how would this be defined?

I am just confused, please help, thankyou
 

bhaisahab

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I am still confused

I know contain means to hold in a volume or area.
But how does it work in this example " the list contains the groceries".....there are no physical groceries CONTAINED there, only listed, so what is it that they mean or how is this word being used? Do they mean the groceries are more less expressed, included...one defintion is contain means to 'have as contents, what is spoken or written about" Is this true, how would this be defined?

I am just confused, please help, thankyou

That's not a good example. It's not natural to say "this list contains the groceries", I can't imagine a native speaker saying it.
 

alkaspeltzar

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That's not a good example. It's not natural to say "this list contains the groceries", I can't imagine a native speaker saying it.

True, i don't disagree, but people do say things like this.

I work in the engineering field and people say things like this "Look at table #1, it contains the weights for the bolts...."

Again, the table is LISTING the weights and showing, yet they chose the word contain, why? Are they just fudging the meaning and people get what they are saying, that the wieghts are involved and shown by the table, hence look for them there?

Just trying to understand where there thinking is at and why people would use this usage.

Thanks
 

emsr2d2

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If someone said to me "Go and look at that list. It contains the prices and sizes you need" (or similar) I would have no problem with it or any difficulty understanding it. I don't consider there to be any "fudging of meaning" going on.
 

alkaspeltzar

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If someone said to me "Go and look at that list. It contains the prices and sizes you need" (or similar) I would have no problem with it or any difficulty understanding it. I don't consider there to be any "fudging of meaning" going on.

Can you explain why it is not fudging? Seems like I am asking a question everyone gets but no one will answer. If you look at the definition, contain has to do with physically containing things. I dont see how a list holds a price or sizes.

Seems to me people in this examples would really be meaning the list refers to the prices and sizes, so 'contain" would not be the best word choice.

Can someone explain what I am missing? Thank you
 

5jj

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Can someone explain what I am missing? Thank you
What you are missing is:
1. People do not normally speak of lists containing people. It's not very natural, as bhai said way back in post #4.
2. Even if some people have said it, it does not mean that they are thinking of a list physically containing people. If you look at transcripts of natural informal conversations, you will hardly find a single complete sentence that stands up to detailed analysis. People are attempting in informal conversation to convey messages, not to construct immaculate sentences in which every word is the ideal one and every fine point of grammar is observed.
 

alkaspeltzar

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Okay, 5ij, that makes AWESOME SENSE< That is all I wanted to know. I wanted to know if in my examples, they were stretching the meaning to help convey the message. Now I see that is true.

So I agree when someone says "see the list for grocieries, they are contained in it" I know what they mean, but also now i know what they say doesnt have to be PERFECT. We speak and write clearly enough so our meanings are understood. As are in my examples. Thank you soo much for putting my mind at ease.

Finally, this also makes sense why the word "contain" is defined as holding something physical and more abstractly within different examples. This would be a case of it.

Thanks again all:Sorry for being blunt, i was just getting frustrated but I appreciate all your help!

Alkaspeltzar
 
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