Results 1 to 10 of 26

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,151
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Spelling System for Dialect

    I am starting this as a new thread since Shahir of the other thread seems to have disappeared.

    Does anybody know of an easily usable phonetic spelling system that does not use diacritical markings, by which I mean symbols other than letters and punctuation marks that are on a normal English language keyboard?

    As I said in the other thread, I have always found the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) impractical to use for writing writing up to speed.

    Long ago, I studied this matter, considering, for example how Robert Burns wrote in his dialect. I found nothing that was satisfactory. The best at the time, I think, was called "World English".

    \Uy divelupt muy uwn sistem, then, wich werks fuyn for muy perpusiz. But az uy am ekspandyng intw forin langwejiz, uy duwnt wunt tw ryinvent thu wyl, if uy duwnt hav tw.\

    I hope that wasn't too offensive. But I would serious like know if there are other options.

  2. #2
    Frank Antonson's Avatar
    Frank Antonson is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,151
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Spelling System for Dialect

    Oops. I spelled "then" wrong. It should have been \dhen\ since the "th" is voiced.

    Sorry.

  3. #3
    5jj's Avatar
    5jj is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    28,168
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Spelling System for Dialect

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    As I said in the other thread, I have always found the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) impractical to use for writing writing up to speed.
    The problem with any other system is that nearly everybody reading things written in it would have to learn it first. And, unless you provided recorded materials, they would not know exactly how it was pronounced.

    I can read your \Uy divelupt muy uwn sistem/, but I don't know exactly what sound is represented by, for example, \uy/. If however you write the IPA [šë], then all of use who can read IPA transcriptions know what that sound (that of BrE RP /aɪ/).

    Your system also suggests that in the dialect you are transcribing, the final element of \uy/is a different vowel from the first one of \sistem/. If it is, then it is different from most other varieties of English. I also notice that you use the same symbol, \w/, for the o of 'into' and the first sound after g in 'languages'; I cannot tell how you pronounce these words. You also use the same syllable for the sounds of the letters I have underlined in these words: developed, system, languages. In my variety of English, these are three different vowels; I don't know which of these your \e/ represents - or if it a different vowel altogether. IPA symbols would give me the answer.

    It is not easy to do a narrow transcription with the IPA system, but it is the best system we have for dialects.

  4. #4
    BobK's Avatar
    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • UK
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    15,556
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Spelling System for Dialect

    There is an ASCII-based system, for representing the phonemes of mainstream English - SAMPA, I think. (Yes).

    But it is only good for that one dialect (and I'm not convinced that the word 'good' is appropriate ). If you want to represent sounds and sound systems unambiguously I don't see how you can avoid the IPA.

    b

  5. #5
    5jj's Avatar
    5jj is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    28,168
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Spelling System for Dialect

    SAMPA is based on the IPA.

  6. #6
    BobK's Avatar
    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • UK
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    15,556
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Spelling System for Dialect

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    SAMPA is based on the IPA.
    I've just read that SAMPA page, and realize it's more multinational than I thought If it's based on the IPA, though, I find it an unusually regressive development.

    b

  7. #7
    5jj's Avatar
    5jj is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    28,168
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Spelling System for Dialect

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    If it's based on the IPA, though, I find it an unusually regressive development.
    It's not supposed to replace the IPA, but to make a machine-readable form of it - I think. I don't fully understand the articles I've read on it.

  8. #8
    konungursvia's Avatar
    konungursvia is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Academic
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    4,792
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Spelling System for Dialect

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    I've just read that SAMPA page, and realize it's more multinational than I thought If it's based on the IPA, though, I find it an unusually regressive development.

    b
    Yes, I found it odd and counter-intuitive when I had a look. How could 3 represent the vowel in 'nurse'? It looks like a cursive z, which matches its IPA meaning very well.

Similar Threads

  1. Dialect survey
    By mysiaczek88 in forum Pronunciation and Phonetics
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 16-Jul-2013, 08:18
  2. A manual system versus an online system.
    By johnq in forum Editing & Writing Topics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-Mar-2010, 03:55
  3. system of govt & governance system
    By sampahmel in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-Nov-2008, 05:41
  4. Australian spelling system
    By sarah b in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 18-Jun-2008, 19:17
  5. dialect
    By Unregistered in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 23-Feb-2008, 15:18

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •