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  1. #1
    keannu's Avatar
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    Default There is tresure in church

    I learned that in some cases, zero article nouns mean the original purpose of the noun. So in 1, can it have a general meaning of "There is treasure like getting peace from prayer in church" where church is used as an original purpose? 2 definitely means physical treasure in a physical church.
    What about 3? Can you use "in school" for generalization of a noun like school? It doesn't an unspecific school(a school) or a specific school(the school), which all mean physical places.

    gz92)
    1.There is treasure in church.
    2.There is treasure in the church.
    3. In school, our children, the dream of our future grow.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: There is tresure in church

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    I learned that in some cases, zero article nouns mean the original purpose of the noun (What do you mean by "the original purpose of the noun?). So in 1, can it have a general meaning of "There is treasure like getting peace from prayer in church" (I would never take that meaning from the word "treasure") where church is used as an original purpose (Again, what do you mean by "an original purpose"?)? 2 definitely means physical treasure in a physical church.

    What about 3? Can you use "in school" for generalization of a noun like school? It doesn't (missing word?) an unspecified school(a school) or a specific school(the school), which all mean physical places.

    gz92)
    1.There is treasure in church. This is unnatural.2.There is treasure in the church. This could mean "in the church as a global institution" or "in a specific church" (the building).
    3. In school, our children, the dream of our future grow. "In school" is fine here. The way you have worded it means that you consider that "our children" are "the dream of our future". Is that what you meant?
    See above. As you can see, I am not entirely clear on what you meant by "original purpose of the noun".
    Remember - correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing make posts much easier to read.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: There is tresure in church

    learned that in some cases, zero article nouns mean the original purpose of the noun (What do you mean by "the original purpose of the noun?). So in 1, can it have a general meaning of "There is treasure like getting peace from prayer in church" (I would never take that meaning from the word "treasure")

    By original purpose, I mean like this.

    1.I go to church - I go for attending service
    2. I go to a church - an unspecific physical building
    3. I go to the church - a specific physical building.

    Anyway, I looked up "in church" in a dictionary, and came to know nouns without an article can mean the original purpose of the noun. So "in church" means "attending a service". We go to churtch to attend a service, so that is the original purpose.

    3. In school, our children, the dream of our future grow. "In school" is fine here. The way you have worded it means that you consider that "our children" are "the dream of our future". Is that what you meant? => Yes!!!
    Last edited by keannu; 29-Jan-2013 at 15:50.

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    Default Re: There is tresure in church

    I'm sorry I have another doubt, this might be a chance to tell how to use original purpse of a noun and generalization of a noun. So, to mean generalization of a noun, do we have to use a singluar form like 1 and 3 or a plural form like 2 and 4?
    1 and 3 seem to carry original purpose like attending service, so they may interfere with any generalization of church.

    1. In(at) church, there is peace and love
    2. In(at) churches, there is peace and love
    3. In(at) church, our spirits grow.
    3. In(at) churches, our spirits grow.

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    Default Re: There is tresure in church

    I think you would be better off if you forgot the 'original purpose' idea. In the following sentences, 'church' is used completely naturally; Whatever the origin of the word 'church', we cannot say that any of the following sentences shows 'original purpose' in modern English.
    The church still has a role to play in today's society.
    He was chapel and she was church, so they faced a lot of problems.
    You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church.
    They had a church wedding.
    Turn right after the church and you'll find it.
    Second sons often went into the church.

    I haven't been to church for years.
    Last edited by 5jj; 30-Jan-2013 at 08:33. Reason: typo

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    Default Re: There is tresure in church

    Okay, I will forget the concept of original purpose. So to talk about nouns generally, would 1 and 2 below be okay or just one?

    1. In(at) church, our spirits grow.
    2.. In(at) churches, our spirits grow.

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    Default Re: There is tresure in church

    emsr, could you please tell me why this is unnatural? Is it because of the conflict between a physical thing and a ceremonical thing?
    1.There is treasure in church. This is unnatural

  8. #8
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    Default Re: There is tresure in church

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    emsr, could you please tell me why this is unnatural? Is it because of the conflict between a physical thing and a ceremonical thing?
    1.There is treasure in church. This is unnatural
    I found it unnatural because it doesn't have any meaning that I can ascertain. "Treasure" is generally taken to mean 1) a box of gold coins (for example) or 2) a term of endearment ("Oh, you're a treasure for helping me mow my lawn") or, of course, it's a verb.

    The second meaning doesn't fit the sentence at all, and if you are talking about a hoard of ancient gold coins, then you would have to say that the treasure is/was [found] in a church and then, preferably, state which church (building) you are talking about.
    Remember - correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing make posts much easier to read.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: There is tresure in church

    Okay, I got it. Then, are these all natural?
    1. In(at) church, there is peace and love
    2. In(at) churches, there is peace and love
    3. In(at) church, our spirits grow.
    3. In(at) churches, our spirits grow.

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    Default Re: There is tresure in church

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    Okay, I got it. Then, are these all natural?
    1. In(at) church, there is peace and love.
    2. In(at) churches, there is peace and love.
    3. In(at) church, our spirits grow.
    3. In(at) churches, our spirits grow.
    A believer or somebody who appreciates the atmosphere of churches might say the first two. 'our spirits grow' in the second two does not sound natural to me, but it might to some.

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