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  1. #1
    MikeWalker's Avatar
    MikeWalker is offline Newbie
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    Default Perfect grammar or good pronunciation?

    Hi guys!
    Do you think that good grammar is more important than pronunciation, or is it the other way around?
    Thank you for your answers!

  2. #2
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: Perfect grammar or good pronunciation?

    I don't think you can separate them like that. An utterance needs to be grammatically sound enough and pronounced well enough for it to be comprehensible. You'd sound weird if you had a perfect accent and terrible grammar, vice versa. I'd try to develop them in tandem.

  3. #3
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    Odessa Dawn is online now Senior Member
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    Default Re: Perfect grammar or good pronunciation?


    Hi, Tdol.

    Thank you, Tdol, so very much for your great advice that will be saved for a future use. Your forum will never be compared to universities in my country combined. I thank you for your precious help and being patient with me. To be honest with you, I donít care about being crushed or mocked in this forum as long as your teaching is a calling. Your are in the position of a messenger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    I don't think you can separate them like that. An utterance needs to be grammatically sound enough and pronounced well enough for it to be comprehensible. You'd sound weird if you had a perfect accent and terrible grammar, vice versa. I'd try to develop them in tandem.

    This is a hard blow to those who are lecturing on us day and night by saying, "Donít care about English grammar rules. You will master them through repeated usage." And they run courses in which they focus on conversation. They say, "Donít you want us to set you free from "Speaking Phobia." Yes, when you submit the course fee, they start giving you lessons in which they teach you how to ask for pizza in fast food restaurant. They overcharge you a lot of money, and at the end of the day you get nothing. In other words, empty handed. Yes, English courses in S. Arabia are not recommended. Also, in public schools their primary goals is to encourage you studying English. But they donít teach you anything just lip services. I do pay heavy price because I listened to their corrupted advice. How long this phenomena will exist in that country? In a word, their teaching is not a calling.
    I donít know why they do this to us. They are rich. But I think they are in love with showing off.

    Note that I have posted this since I am being crushed to the point of death and it might lessen my pain. Ignorance killed me from inside but I will never stop learning since I have set King David as a good example. And if anyone stays in my way by trying to stop me from learning, I will deal with him even if it is at the cost of my own life. Time has come.

    Now I leave you with an interesting story:
    "When the day came for David to die, the Angel of Death was dispatched, but finding David learning incessantly, was unable to take himóthe Torah being a form of undying life. Eventually the angel was forced to devise a stratagem. Eventually the angel was forced to devise a stratagem. He caused a rustling noise in a tree in the royal garden. David climbed up a ladder to see what was making the noise. A rung of the ladder broke. David fell, and for a moment ceased learning. In that moment he died."

    More: The Heart, the Home, the Text - Covenant & Conversation - Parsha

    Bless.

  4. #4
    Esgaleth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Perfect grammar or good pronunciation?

    I'm rather curious to know why "perfect" grammar but only "good" pronunciation? Doesn't it sound like comparing written and spoken languages?

    On a teacher's note, perfect grammar implies weak forms as well, otherwise it's not perfect methinks.

  5. #5
    MikeWalker's Avatar
    MikeWalker is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: Perfect grammar or good pronunciation?

    Hey Esgaleth!
    I actually just wanted to know whether good grammar is more important than GOOD pronunciation. Often poor pronunciation leads to misunderstandings.

  6. #6
    Esgaleth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Perfect grammar or good pronunciation?

    Hi Mike!

    I agree with Tdol. Even though we can technically distinguish various language skills, there's not much sense in favouring one at the expence of others. I just don't quite get it why it seems so attractive to confront whatever it is - vocabulary, pronunciation, discourse, etc. - with grammar. I can't think of any example of 'good' pronunciation without good grammar? What's it like - random words?

    As a teacher, I could see your point (I think) and as a big fan of phonology, I am trying to teach grammar (and vocabulary) through pronunciation. As a learner, I'd definitely go for a reasonable mixture of everything.

    It would be nice if you could share your experience.


    Quote Originally Posted by MikeWalker View Post
    Hey Esgaleth!
    I actually just wanted to know whether good grammar is more important than GOOD pronunciation. Often poor pronunciation leads to misunderstandings.
    Last edited by Esgaleth; 22-Feb-2013 at 00:23.

  7. #7
    MikeWalker's Avatar
    MikeWalker is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: Perfect grammar or good pronunciation?

    I know exactly what you mean. As a teacher I encountered number of students who have difficulties when speaking with native English speakers. Even with reasonably good grammar, their accent was just too thick and hard to understand. Many of them have had some embarrassing moments. Imagine looking for a job with thick accent, starting a relationship etc. I'm researching this issue from a social standpoint. If we could help students ''feel'' the language, the rhythm of it and speak fluently it would resolve their anxieties. Of course, good grammar is important, I'm not arguing about that. :)

  8. #8
    Esgaleth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Perfect grammar or good pronunciation?

    You might want to google 'accent reduction' rater than simply 'pronunciation' then, though I can't stop thinking that it's just a new bonanza in the ESL industry. In the majority of cases, tapping the rhythm and a lot of listening could put them on the right track unless there's a psychological issue. Once again, it would be nice to hear more about your research. :)

  9. #9
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Perfect grammar or good pronunciation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Esgaleth View Post
    I can't stop thinking that it's just a new bonanza in the ESL industry.
    Yet another.
    In the majority of cases, tapping the rhythm and a lot of listening could put them on the right track unless there's a psychological issue.
    You obviously know nothing about modern scientific jargon.you seem to believe that common sense has a role to play in our business.
    Welcome to the club.
    Please do not edit your question after it has received a response. Such editing can make the response hard for others to understand.


  10. #10
    Esgaleth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Perfect grammar or good pronunciation?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    You obviously know nothing about modern scientific jargon
    Even if I did, it's hardly the matter of knowing. As an acknowledged expert in the field of errors, blunders and the like, I now tend to agree that 'the less you know the less you forget' :D

    In a quite old-fashioned manner, I sincerely believe that with a bit of common sense we could move mountains but since the ESL business is to teach English, not students, it might well be irrelevant. :)

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