Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16

Thread: determined upon

  1. #1
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,529
    Post Thanks / Like

    determined upon

    What is the difference between " determined upon" and merely "determined"? Can't this be replaced with "determined"?

    st66)Man was formerly thought to be a reasoning animal, basing his actions on the conclusions of natural logic....Momentous decisions are made, far-reaching actions are determined upon, primarily by the force of suggestion.

  2. #2
    billmcd is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,505
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: determined upon

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    What is the difference between " determined upon" and merely "determined"? Can't this be replaced with "determined"? I would agree and delete the comma.

    st66)Man was formerly thought to be a reasoning animal, basing his actions on the conclusions of natural logic....Momentous decisions are made, far-reaching actions are determined upon, primarily by the force of suggestion.
    b.

  3. #3
    JACEK1 is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Interested in Language
      • Native Language:
      • Polish
      • Home Country:
      • Poland
      • Current Location:
      • Poland
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    553
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: determined upon

    Does determined upon mean "selected, chosen"?

  4. #4
    billmcd is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,505
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: determined upon

    Quote Originally Posted by JACEK1 View Post
    Does determined upon mean "selected, chosen"? Based on/upon
    b.

  5. #5
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,529
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: determined upon

    Do you mean "upon" is an unnecessary mistake or does it have any extra meaning?

    "determined upon"

  6. #6
    Raymott's Avatar
    Raymott is online now VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Academic
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    20,166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: determined upon

    Quote Originally Posted by keannu View Post
    Do you mean "upon" is an unnecessary mistake or does it have any extra meaning?

    "determined upon"
    Given that you're discussing something philosophical, "determined" could be taken to mean "predetermined", as in "far-reaching actions are predetermined". Adding 'upon' makes it clear that it's the humans who are determining it - but your context should make it unnecessary. If you simply had, "The far-reaching actions of humans are determined", that would be ambiguous.


  7. #7
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,529
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: determined upon

    I initially thought the active voice for the sentence is 2, but 1 is correct judging from your explanation, right?

    1. They(people) determine upon far-reaching actions primarily by the force of suggestion.
    2. Primarily, the force of suggestion determines upon far-reaching actions.

  8. #8
    Jaskin is offline Senior Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Polish
      • Home Country:
      • Poland
      • Current Location:
      • UK
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    527
    Post Thanks / Like

    Post Re: determined upon

    hi,
    Please note I'm not a teacher nor a native speaker.

    What strike me with the OP example is that although I think I understand the sentence in question yet I'm unable to give the answer to OP's question. And on top of that I can't fully agree with what already been said.
    So I determined upon finding the answer. I decided that I weigh in even though I didn't find it.

    Man was formerly thought to be a reasoning animal, basing his actions on the conclusions of natural logic....Momentous decisions are made, far-reaching actions are determined upon, primarily by the force of suggestion.

    I understand that the second sentence could read :
    Momentous decisions and far-reaching actions are based primarily on/upon the force of suggestion. [as contrary to 'basing it on the conclusions of natural logic']

    But I wouldn't say that
    determined upon means based on/upon.I was searching for examples of usage in BNC to help me grasp the meanings of and the difference between determined upon and determined. I thought that I'd post it here. I hope it will be somehow helpful.

    First some examples where I think is impossible to omit the preposition. [I'm not sure if it conveys the same meaning] :


    1. Presumably, if the House of Commons chose to determine upon the fate of a Bill by drawing lots or tossing a coin, it would be within its competence to do so.
    2. Having attained a First Class degree in History in 1935, he then determined upon a doctorate, which he completed in 1938


    could the preposition be omitted ? :

    1. Once the pact made, action, and instantaneous action, was determined upon.
    2. In the course of inquiry objectives are set and a specific course of action is determined upon from a set of alternative courses of action.
    3. There must be some period at which the military and the diplomatic or political forces are brought together, and in my view, this ought to be before action is determined upon.

    some sentences with upon + by.:


    1. Complaints were carried to Carthage, and war was determined upon bythe influence of Annibal in the Carthaginian senate
    2. All cases of amputation must either be first designated for operation by the surgeon in charge of the hospital, or be determined upon by a majority vote of a board of at least ...

    [lot of the above examples are dating back to 1800's ]

    some examples with determined by :

    1. Now if this only means what was before asserted, that our actions are determined by pleasure and pain, that simple and unambiguous mode of stating the proposition is preferable
    2. That is, we feel that our voluntary actions are determined by causes within us, and not outside us.
    3. According to this tradition, moral agents act autonomously when their actions are determined by their reason, rather than by irrational impulses, habits, or emotions.


    cheers,


  9. #9
    emsr2d2's Avatar
    emsr2d2 is offline Moderator
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • UK
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    24,553
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: determined upon

    For me, "determined upon" in the OP's example means "decided upon".

    Have you determined upon a course of action?
    Yes, we have. We are going to take him to court.

    I would not replace "determined upon" in that example with "determined".
    Remember - correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing make posts much easier to read.

  10. #10
    keannu's Avatar
    keannu is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • Korean
      • Home Country:
      • South Korea
      • Current Location:
      • South Korea
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    4,529
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: determined upon

    If you say "Have you determined a course of action?", does it mean "it's finished" rather than giving the nuance of "thinking about something and making a decision"?

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. determined/diagnosed
    By maral55 in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 18-Feb-2013, 02:35
  2. I'm determined to understand commas
    By maxman in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 29-Oct-2010, 05:15
  3. [Vocabulary] they decided/determined the threat was a hoax.
    By jiamajia in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 20-Aug-2010, 15:40
  4. Insofar as could be determined
    By nyggus in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 21-Mar-2006, 22:41

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •