Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Mar 2013
    • Posts: 4
    • Post Thanks / Like
    #1

    Sentence pattern confusion

    I am trying to determine if the following sentence is a S-V-DO-OC or not.

    The officers elected the smartest teacher as president for the union.

  1. Route21's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Interested in Language
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Thailand

    • Join Date: Nov 2010
    • Posts: 938
    • Post Thanks / Like
    #2

    Re: Sentence pattern confusion

    Welcome to the forum.

    What do you think and why?
    If we know what your problem is, we would be better placed to provide an appropriate answer.

    It looks like homework and we don't do your homework.

    Regards
    R21

  2. Frank Antonson's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Dec 2009
    • Posts: 1,151
    • Post Thanks / Like
    #3

    Re: Sentence pattern confusion

    There is an objective complement in that sentence, as in "The sun made the apples red."

  3. 5jj's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Oct 2010
    • Posts: 28,167
    • Post Thanks / Like
    #4

    Re: Sentence pattern confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    There is an objective complement in that sentence, as in "The sun made the apples red."
    That's fine for The officers elected the smartest teacher president for of the union.

    Doesn't it make a difference if we put 'as' before 'president'.

  4. Frank Antonson's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Dec 2009
    • Posts: 1,151
    • Post Thanks / Like
    #5

    Re: Sentence pattern confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    That's fine for The officers elected the smartest teacher president for of the union.

    Doesn't it make a difference if we put 'as' before 'president'.
    I don't think so. "To be" can often be inserted before an objective complement. I suppose that "as" can be also. You don't really need it.

    I would call it a function word like "that" in "I think THAT I'm right".

    What is an alternative?

  5. 5jj's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Oct 2010
    • Posts: 28,167
    • Post Thanks / Like
    #6

    Re: Sentence pattern confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Antonson View Post
    I don't think so. "To be" can often be inserted before an objective complement.
    "They elected him to be president:. What's the function of 'to be'?
    I suppose that "as" can be also. You don't really need it.
    True, but as it's there, we can't ignore it.
    I would call it a function word like "that" in "I think THAT I'm right".

    What is an alternative?
    Well, it seems to me that 'as' functions here as a preposition. If it does (and that's only an 'if', then I think that president must be the object of the preposition, and therefore cannot be an object complement.

    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Mar 2013
    • Posts: 4
    • Post Thanks / Like
    #7

    Re: Sentence pattern confusion

    Does "as" function as a preposition when followed by a noun? If it does, then "The officers elected the smartest teacher president of the union." is a S-V-DO sentence. I think I have figured it out with some good help.

    Thank you.

  6. 5jj's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Oct 2010
    • Posts: 28,167
    • Post Thanks / Like
    #8

    Re: Sentence pattern confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by dgquander View Post
    Does "as" function as a preposition when followed by a noun? If it does, then "The officers elected the smartest teacher president of the union." is a S-V-DO sentence. I think I have figured it out with some good help.
    No. That one's S-V-DO-OC. I am pretty sure that Frank and I agree on that. I'll leave it to Frank to confirm that.

    My problem is how those who favour this type of analysis deal with that sentence when 'president' is preceded by 'as', and I look forward to Frank's response. He and I have very different views about the value of some types of sentence analysis, but I think that our occasional clashes may help learners realise that there are few absolutes when it comes to analysing language.

  7. Frank Antonson's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Dec 2009
    • Posts: 1,151
    • Post Thanks / Like
    #9

    Re: Sentence pattern confusion

    "As" can certainly be a preposition. But, would the subsequent phrase be adverbial, modifying "elected" by answering "how"? I still think, not.

    The concept of "function word" is almost like an additional part of speech. In German the difference between "dass" and "das" illustrates the use of a function word.

    Another example is "if" in "I don't know if he will go" or "that" in "I don't know that he will go".

    Of course, this is all Reed-Kellogg.

    Frank

    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Mar 2013
    • Posts: 4
    • Post Thanks / Like
    #10

    Re: Sentence pattern confusion

    So, if "that" and "as" can be excluded from the phrase without the sentence losing its meaning, then "The officers elected the smartest teacher as president of the union." and "The officers elected the smartest teacher president of the union." mean the same thing.

    I did see the sentence "Kim works as a waitress." That sentence is S-V because the verb is intransitive and "as a waitress" is a prepositional phrase according to the example explanation. Now can you see why I am so confused about sentence structures?

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [General] sentence pattern
    By halleyllee in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 26-Mar-2013, 11:52
  2. Need help Digramming an advanced sentence and determining sentence pattern
    By abcspacksbcglobal in forum Analysing and Diagramming Sentences
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 24-Mar-2013, 10:06
  3. [Grammar] Need help Digramming an advanced sentence and determining sentence pattern
    By abcspacksbcglobal in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 22-Mar-2013, 13:35
  4. Sentence Pattern
    By julesalvanette in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-Sep-2012, 08:52
  5. sentence pattern
    By nathalia in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 26-Aug-2005, 20:04

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •