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Thread: reduced sound

  1. #1
    hotapplepie is offline Newbie
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    Default reduced sound

    Hello, everyone!

    I have read some references about reduced sound(two consonants).
    But most of them are talking about two the same letters(pronunciations), as in "bus station","right time".
    The letters s and t, the last letter of first word and the first letter of second word, are the same in two words.
    They just pronounce once for two the same continuous pronunciations.

    My question is if the two consonants are not the same,as in "red coat(d--c)","black bike(k--b)",
    could they be reduced?
    I guess /d/ in red and /k/ in black could be omitted?
    I am not sure of this. I just guess from what I have listened so far.

    Could anyone tell me?
    Thanks very much.

  2. #2
    Route21's Avatar
    Route21 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: reduced sound

    As an NES but not a teacher:

    Whilst being wary of making any pronouncements on pronunciation (if you'll forgive the pun), I feel sure that you wouldn't get much support for your solution to the question posed.

    Regards
    R21

  3. #3
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    Default Re: reduced sound

    Quote Originally Posted by hotapplepie View Post
    Hello, everyone!

    I have read some references about reduced sound(two consonants).
    But most of them are talking about two the same letters(pronunciations), as in "bus station","right time".
    The letters s and t, the last letter of first word and the first letter of second word, are the same in two words.
    They just pronounce once for two the same continuous pronunciations.

    My question is if the two consonants are not the same,as in "red coat(d--c)","black bike(k--b)",
    could they be reduced?
    I guess /d/ in red and /k/ in black could be omitted?
    I am not sure of this. I just guess from what I have listened so far.

    Could anyone tell me?
    Thanks very much.
    No, you can't do that. /bustation/ is understandable, but /re coat/ and /bla bike/ aren't.
    Even in /bustation/, the 's' is usually given a longer value.

  4. #4
    yannickswa is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: reduced sound

    Quote Originally Posted by hotapplepie View Post
    Hello, everyone!

    I have read some references about reduced sound(two consonants).
    But most of them are talking about two the same letters(pronunciations), as in "bus station","right time".
    The letters s and t, the last letter of first word and the first letter of second word, are the same in two words.
    They just pronounce once for two the same continuous pronunciations.

    My question is if the two consonants are not the same,as in "red coat(d--c)","black bike(k--b)",
    could they be reduced?
    I guess /d/ in red and /k/ in black could be omitted?
    I am not sure of this. I just guess from what I have listened so far.

    Could anyone tell me?
    Thanks very much.

    It depends on contexts, accents, speakers.

    contexts: Imagine someone is very tired. Do you think s/he will say "reD Coat" rather than "re Coat"?
    If the listener does not understand it. S/he would ask "What coat?' then the speaker would emphasise on the word RED, by saying /'red kəʊt/ or /'red koʊt/(AmE).

    accents: If you watch American movies, do you notice that they often drop the end consonant sounds as compared to the British ones?

    speakers: Some people speak fast, some speak slow. Do you think some rapid speakers can speak fast without dropping their end consonants?
    There are some exceptions that linking can be used with consonant sounds without having to drop them.

    last week --> last tweek
    last year --> last tear
    bed room --> bed droom
    C - C

    It is because we have "dr" and "tw" as consonant blends in English.
    Examples of Consonant Blends

    I hope it helps :)

  5. #5
    Route21's Avatar
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    Default Re: reduced sound

    Hi yannickswa

    Welcome to the forum, but please, in accordance with the forum rules, identify your NES/teaching/phonetics status, at the start of your posts, when making pronouncements.

    Many thanks
    R21

  6. #6
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: reduced sound

    Quote Originally Posted by yannickswa View Post
    I Imagine someone is very tired. Do you think s/he will say "reD Coat" rather than "re Coat"?
    The /d/ may very well not be exploded, but it will be there. Native speakers are very unlikely to say /'rekəʊt/ or /'rekoʊt/.

    If you watch American movies, do you notice that they often drop the end consonant sounds as compared to the British ones?
    I haven't noticed that.


    last week --> last tweek
    last year --> last tear
    bed room --> bed droom
    These are not natural pronunciations.

  7. #7
    yannickswa is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: reduced sound

    Sorry for not including it as I just joined this site days ago.
    I am an NES with mixed parentage. I have been teaching English for 16 years, major in Phonetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    The /d/ may very well not be exploded, but it will be there. Native speakers are very unlikely to say /'rekəʊt/ or /'rekoʊt/.

    I haven't noticed that.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOquwb1B0Rs (0.33-0.36s) The lady said: "I don't think that was right
    Although end consonants are not dropped all the time, I do think it is not wrong to drop it.


    These are not natural pronunciations.
    bedroom - Definition and pronunciation | Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOquwb1B0Rs (0.00- 0.05s ) last tweek. "t" sound was softened to sound like a "d" so, "last dweek". State Fair calmer than last year, police say - YouTube (0.06-0.08s) last tear/ "last dear" (softened) by a news reporter.

    Please correct me if I am wrong. We share and learn together. :)

  8. #8
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    Default Re: reduced sound

    Quote Originally Posted by yannickswa View Post
    Sorry for not including it as I just joined this site days ago.
    I am an NES with mixed parentage. I have been teaching English for 16 years, major in Phonetics.
    The reason for querying your credentials was that your Member Info listed you as not being a teacher and I had great difficulty in relating, as an NES, to many of your comments (as did 5jj, who has a particular interest in phonetics).

    Regards
    R21

  9. #9
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    Default Re: reduced sound

    Quote Originally Posted by yannickswa View Post
    bedroom - Definition and pronunciation | Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary at OxfordLearnersDictionaries.com
    I don't see why you provided that link. None of the versions there is anything like 'bed droom'

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOquwb1B0Rs (0.00- 0.05s ) last tweek. "t" sound was softened to sound like a "d" so, "last dweek".
    My ear is not as sharp as it used to be, but I clearly heard a /t/ there. It's actually not particularly easy to produce a clear voiced /d/ after an unvoiced /s/. It most definitely was not /td/.

    State Fair calmer than last year, police say - YouTube (0.06-0.08s) last tear/ "last dear" (softened) by a news reporter.
    The same thing - I heard /t/ - followed by /j/. It most definitely was not /td/.
    5

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