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  1. #1
    wotcha's Avatar
    wotcha is offline Senior Member
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    Every boy does not like dancing. Not every boy likes dancing.

    1. Every boy does not like dancing.

    2. Not every boy likes dancing.


    SO, is 1 same as 2 in meaning?

  2. #2
    5jj's Avatar
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    Re: Every boy does not like dancing. Not every boy likes dancing.

    #1 is not natural.

  3. #3
    Rover_KE is offline Moderator
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    Re: Every boy does not like dancing. Not every boy likes dancing.

    It's also untrue. Many boys do like dancing.

    #2 is true and natural.

    Rover

  4. #4
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    Re: Every boy does not like dancing. Not every boy likes dancing.

    Also, they are not the same in meaning.

    1. 100% of boys do not like dancing.

    2. Not 100% (maybe 5%, maybe 50%, maybe 99%) of boys like dancing. But there are definitely some boys who don't.

  5. #5
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    Re: Every boy does not like dancing. Not every boy likes dancing.

    Despite its unnatural nature, "every boy does not like" can be interpreted two ways.

    The set of "every boy" "does not like" = no boys like it.

    Or "it's not true that every boy likes dancing."

    If you have 100 boys, the first reading requires 100 boys to "not like" it, and the second allows 1 or 99 boys to like it.
    I'm not a teacher, but I write for a living. Please don't ask me about 2nd conditionals, but I'm a safe bet for what reads well in (American) English.

  6. #6
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    konungursvia is offline Key Member
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    Re: Every boy does not like dancing. Not every boy likes dancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by wotcha View Post
    1. Every boy does not like dancing.

    2. Not every boy likes dancing.

    SO, is 1 same as 2 in meaning?
    I have read the whole thread, and have many of the same feelings as the other teachers, but I still feel like saying yes, they are both correct, and yes, they have the same meaning.

    It's like the proverbial expression, "All that is gold does not glitter."

    It's unnatural to use propositional logic to interpret the meaning in this way: all gold fails to glitter.
    The only rhetorically natural, though somewhat archaic, interpretation, is this: not all gold catches your eye by shining bright.

    Though it's true, by today's conversational American-dominated mode of speech, 1. will strike most people today as a great big "what the heck?" Readers of older literature won't find any fault with it though, I feel.

  7. #7
    Raymott's Avatar
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    Re: Every boy does not like dancing. Not every boy likes dancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by konungursvia View Post
    I have read the whole thread, and have many of the same feelings as the other teachers, but I still feel like saying yes, they are both correct, and yes, they have the same meaning.

    It's like the proverbial expression, "All that is gold does not glitter."

    It's unnatural to use propositional logic to interpret the meaning in this way: all gold fails to glitter.
    The only rhetorically natural, though somewhat archaic, interpretation, is this: not all gold catches your eye by shining bright.

    Though it's true, by today's conversational American-dominated mode of speech, 1. will strike most people today as a great big "what the heck?" Readers of older literature won't find any fault with it though, I feel.
    To me, the proverbial expression is "All that glitters is not gold." That is, "Just because it glitters doesn't mean it's gold."
    Or, in propositional logic, "There exists x, such that x glitters, and x is not gold."
    The meaning is that just because something looks shiny and bright doesn't mean it's worth anything.

  8. #8
    emsr2d2's Avatar
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    Re: Every boy does not like dancing. Not every boy likes dancing.

    It's "All that glitters is not gold" here too, meaning "Not everything that glitters is gold". I would not take it to mean "Everything that glitters is definitely something other than gold".
    Remember - correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing make posts much easier to read.

  9. #9
    konungursvia's Avatar
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    Re: Every boy does not like dancing. Not every boy likes dancing.


  10. #10
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    Re: Every boy does not like dancing. Not every boy likes dancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by emsr2d2 View Post
    It's "All that glitters is not gold" here too...
    And fans of Shakespeare may prefer 'All that glisters is not gold'. (Note for students of current English: the word 'glisters' didn't make the cut. I like it though.)

    b

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