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Thread: not ill to

  1. #1
    navi tasan is offline Key Member
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    Default not ill to

    Which of the following are correct:

    1-He is not ill to be prescribed medication.

    (Meaning: He is not ill and therefore does not need to be prescribed medication.)

    2-She is not unhappy in her flat to move.
    (Meaning: She is not unhappy in her flat. Therefore she does not need to move.)

    3-She does not feel uncomfortable in her flat to move.

    (Meaning: She does not feel uncomfortable in her flat. Therefore she does not need to move.)


    Gratefully,
    Navi.

  2. #2
    emsr2d2's Avatar
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    Default Re: not ill to

    They are all incorrect. If you had not given the meaning in brackets after each one, I would have said that each one is missing a word. In each case it would be the same word. However, adding that word does not give the meaning you have provided. I cannot think of a way to reduce your three meanings to a single sentence unless you simply replace the full stop/"and therefore" with "so").
    Remember - correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing make posts much easier to read.

  3. #3
    navi tasan is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: not ill to

    Thank you very much emsr2d2,

    How about this one:

    4-He is not a child to be told what to do.

    Meaning: He is not a child and therefore is not to be told what to do.

    I feel that one works but I can't see a difference between its structure and that of my first examples (which did sound strange even to me!).

    Gratefully,
    Navi.

    I guess that the word would be "enough". It would indeed change the meaning.
    Last edited by navi tasan; 25-Apr-2013 at 00:08.

  4. #4
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: not ill to

    Quote Originally Posted by navi tasan View Post
    T
    4-He is not a child to be told what to do.

    Meaning: He is not a child and therefore is not to be told what to do.
    That's possible. It's more likely that he is a child, but one who refuses to be told what to do.

    Context will make the meaning clear.

  5. #5
    emsr2d2's Avatar
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    Default Re: not ill to

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    That's possible. It's more likely that he is a child, but one who refuses to be told what to do.

    Context will make the meaning clear.
    I agree entirely with that meaning. I can imagine hearing something like "Oh, she's not an employee to be told what to do!" from a manager complaining about a member of staff who doesn't like being ordered around. (Maybe I've heard it from my boss!)
    Remember - correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing make posts much easier to read.

  6. #6
    BobK's Avatar
    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Default Re: not ill to

    In that case the 'to be told what to do' is part of a definition/description of the subject. So your first sentence could be 'He is not an invalid to be prescribed medicine', but it wouldn't then mean what you want it to mean.

    b

  7. #7
    navi tasan is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: not ill to

    Thank you all very much.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    In that case the 'to be told what to do' is part of a definition/description of the subject. So your first sentence could be 'He is not an invalid to be prescribed medicine', but it wouldn't then mean what you want it to mean.

    b
    Sorry BobK, but I am not sure I get it. You mean

    a-He is not an invalid to be prescibed medicine.


    does not mean: He is not an invalid and therefore does not have to be prescribed medicine.
    and means:
    b-An invalid to be prescibed medicine is something he is not.

    Gratefully,
    Navi.
    Last edited by navi tasan; 26-Apr-2013 at 00:00.

  8. #8
    emsr2d2's Avatar
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    Default Re: not ill to

    Quote Originally Posted by navi tasan View Post
    Thank you all very much.



    Sorry BobK, but I am not sure I get it. You mean

    a-He is not an invalid to be prescibed medicine.


    does not mean: He is not an invalid and therefore does not have to be prescribed medicine.
    and means:
    b-An invalid to be prescibed medicine is something he is not.

    Gratefully,
    Navi.
    Your second interpretation is closer. Personally, I find "He is not an invalid to be prescribed medicine" rather unnatural and a bit ambiguous. To me, it could mean:

    1. He is an invalid but refuses to allow anyone to prescribe him medicine.
    2. He is an invalid but the medical problems he has are not such that he needs to be prescribed medicine.

    If I meant the first, I would probably say (if using this construction) "He's not an invalid to take prescribed medication" although admittedly that means someone might prescribe it, he would just refuse to take it.

    The use of the word "invalid" as a noun is not really in common usage in BrE any more because it doesn't really have a meaning. It used to be used to mean "disabled" or "bed-bound" or generally "having a long-term illness" but it's very vague. A lot of people would see the word "invalid" on its own and assume it was the adjective meaning "not valid".
    Remember - correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing make posts much easier to read.

  9. #9
    BobK's Avatar
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    Default Re: not ill to

    Quote Originally Posted by emsr2d2 View Post
    ...
    The use of the word "invalid" as a noun is not really in common usage in BrE any more because it doesn't really have a meaning. It used to be used to mean "disabled" or "bed-bound" or generally "having a long-term illness" but it's very vague. A lot of people would see the word "invalid" on its own and assume it was the adjective meaning "not valid".
    I only used it because I wanted to 'repair' the OP's 1st sentence. But you're right about it being ambiguous; I shouldn't have brought it up.

    However, while we're on the subject, and just as a bit of vocabulary information, the noun 'invalid' is stressed (and therefore has different vowel sounds) differently from the adjective:

    adj. - /ɪn'vælɪd/
    noun - /'ɪnvəli:d/

    There is also a verb derived from the noun, usually (?only) used in military contexts: 'to be invalided out' - removed from service because of illness.

    b

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