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  1. #1
    JACEK1 is offline Member
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    Default Does "is necessary" refer to "the allowable thickness" and to "cleaning"?

    It's me again!

    Taking into account the sentence below, can it be said that "is necessary" refers to "the allowable thickness" and to "cleaning"? I think so, but I am not sure. English is not my native language.

    The allowable thickness of deposits before further inspection and, as appropriate, cleaning is necessary at a total diameter of 12 mm.

    Here are some preceding sentences:

    1.3.1. Inspection Due to the relatively large net clearance through the valve, the inner parts are much less sensitive to deposits than ordinary designs. If no thick deposits are detected by means of the fouling indicator pins and by visual inspection after removal of the seat-beds in case of any doubts, the valve is in working
    condition and no further precautions are necessary.

    Operating/maintenance instructions for pressure valves.

  2. #2
    Route21's Avatar
    Route21 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Does "is necessary" refer to "the allowable thickness" and to "cleaning"?

    As an NES but not a teacher, if you were to remove the words "as appropriate", it makes it clearer, I believe, that "is necessary" refers to "cleaning".

    Regards
    R21

  3. #3
    JACEK1 is offline Member
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    Default Re: Does "is necessary" refer to "the allowable thickness" and to "cleaning"?

    Here is some more context. It may be helpful.

    To examine for build-up of residue in the valve, unscrew the Plug with the cleaning indicator (pos. 26 on fig. 18, page 12) and check it for residue thickness. If the residue thickness is over 1 mm, cleaning of the interior of the valve is necessary. The cleaning method depends on the cargo type. For certain crystallizing cargoes, heating arrangement may be necessary according to the chemical Code. If the upper part of the spindle (exposed when check-lifting) is dirty, it must be wiped with a cloth and the lifting/cleaning procedure repeated until the stem is thoroughly cleaned.

    The way I understand the sentence under discussion is as follows:

    The allowable thickness of deposits before further inspection is necessary and, as appropriate, cleaning is necessary at a total diameter of 12 mm.
    The two things that are necessary are:
    1. The allowable thickness of deposits before further inspection is necessary and 2. Cleaning is necessary.

    I don't think the sentence in question means:

    The allowable thickness of deposits before further inspection and, as appropriate, the allowable thickness of deposits before cleaning is necessary at a total diameter of 12 mm.

    Please put me right on that if I am wrong and explain what the sentence really means.
    Last edited by JACEK1; 01-May-2013 at 16:20.

  4. #4
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: Does "is necessary" refer to "the allowable thickness" and to "cleaning"?

    The thickness is a limit. When that is reached, you need to inspect and maybe clean.

  5. #5
    JACEK1 is offline Member
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    Default Re: Does "is necessary" refer to "the allowable thickness" and to "cleaning"?

    I still don't understand.
    It follows from your reply that this variant of mine makes sense.

    The allowable thickness of deposits before further inspection and, as appropriate, the allowable thickness of deposits before cleaning is necessary at a total diameter of 12 mm.

    In that case the allowable thickness ............. is necessary, so "is necessary" is related to "the allowable thickness of deposits before further inspection and, as appropriate, (the allowable thickness of deposits before) cleaning".

    Am I right?
    Last edited by JACEK1; 01-May-2013 at 20:21.

  6. #6
    bhaisahab's Avatar
    bhaisahab is offline Moderator
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    Default Re: Does "is necessary" refer to "the allowable thickness" and to "cleaning"?

    Quote Originally Posted by JACEK1 View Post
    I still don't understand.
    It follows from your reply that this variant of mine makes sense.

    The allowable thickness of deposits before further inspection and, as appropriate, the allowable thickness of deposits before cleaning is necessary at a total diameter of 12 mm.

    In that case the allowable thickness ............. is necessary, so "is necessary" is related to "the allowable thickness of deposits before further inspection and, as appropriate, (the allowable thickness of deposits before) cleaning".

    Am I right?
    It refers to "further inspection" and "cleaning". Furthur inspection and possibly cleaning are necessary when the "thickness" of deposits reaches a certain level.

  7. #7
    JACEK1 is offline Member
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    Default Re: Does "is necessary" refer to "the allowable thickness" and to "cleaning"?

    Please let me agree to disagree, but I still have some doubts about it.

    In my opinion, there is something wrong with the original sentence. Something is missing.

    Maybe the sentence should read like that:

    The allowable thickness of deposits -- before further inspection and, as appropriate, cleaning -- is necessary at a total diameter of 12 mm.

    Why, "is necessary" is in the singular form, not plural.
    The

    If "is necessary" applied to (before further inspection) and, as appropriate, cleaning, the phrases would be in plural.

    The sentence would read as follows:

    The allowable thickness of deposits before further inspection and, as appropriate, cleaning are necessary at a total diameter of 12 mm.
    (there would be something missing from this version).

    What if the sentence were changed around"

    The allowable thickness of deposits is necessary at a total diameter of 12 mm before further inspection and, as appropriate, cleaning.

    Would the sentence still make sense?
    Last edited by JACEK1; 01-May-2013 at 21:29.

  8. #8
    JACEK1 is offline Member
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    Default Re: Does "is necessary" refer to "the allowable thickness" and to "cleaning"?

    I am very sorry. You are both right about the sentence. It is supported by this sentence:
    If the residue thickness is over 1 mm, cleaning of the interior of the valve is necessary.
    There is something wrong with the original sentence.

    Maybe it should read:
    The allowable thickness of deposits, before further inspection and, as appropriate, cleaning is necessary, should be at a total diameter of 12 mm.
    There is another verb missing.

  9. #9
    Route21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does "is necessary" refer to "the allowable thickness" and to "cleaning"?

    Would it help if the sentence were reworded to say:

    When the total diameter, including the allowable deposit level, reaches 12 mm, further inspection and, as appropriate, cleaning is necessary.

    I understand that, in some locations, there are "fouling pins", so that the thickness of the deposit may possibly be easily seen, on a quick inspection. Having done the inspection, a suitable date/time for shutting down the system for any necessary cleaning (and its urgency) could be determined.

    Are the "fouling pins" external to the valve, e.g. showing the distance the valve stem has travelled vs how far it should have travelled with a clean valve, particularly as it talks about fouling in the valve seat? If so, it would simplify the inspection process to a quick visual one.

    One of the problems that I have is that there is no indication of the type of valve, its service or the system of which it forms a part- all necessary "context" for giving appropriate advice.

    Regards
    R21
    Last edited by Route21; 02-May-2013 at 05:23.

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