[Vocabulary] Expressions in Le Carré (JLC) book: TTSS (tinker, tailor, soldier, spy)

[apulcherio]

Ref. chapter 21, page 212, JLC wrote:1) "the Russians turned Tarr round. They 've sent his Family over.... Why's it all so hot?What sort of plant can... ? In this context, what is the meaning of: a) to turn someone ROUND; b) sent someone OVER; c)HOT; d) PLANT thank you apulcherio

 

[Barb_D]

Welcome to Using Englsih.

Are the sentences really cut off with the ellipses? If you can give us the complete sentences, and maybe some more context, that would help.

 

[Tdol]

It's a while since I read it, but I imagine it means that they persuaded him to change sides and become their agent. If something's hot, it is controversial/dangerous, etc. A plant is someone working for you inside another organisation.

 

[Raymott]

A plant is also a type of vegetation, or an industrial installation.
'Hot' can also mean that the temperature is elevated.

 

[Route21]

A plant is also a type of vegetation, or an industrial installation.
'Hot' can also mean that the temperature is elevated.

But very unlikely in TTSS. I would go with Tdol's interpretation, having watched the Tv series a long time ago.

Regards
R21

 

[5jj]

I would go with Tdol's interpretation

So would I, but it would be useful to have some more context to be sure.

 

[Raymott]

But very unlikely in TTSS. I would go with Tdol's interpretation, having watched the Tv series a long time ago.

Regards
R21

I agree - almost certainly. My post was a comment on the lack of context.
Wouldn't you think that the fragment "What sort of plant can ..." almost begs to be finished when you're asking what 'plant' means?
Eg. "What sort of plant can be distilled into the type of poison we need? And what sort of plant do we need to produce it?" asked Smiley.

 

[apulcherio]

I agree - almost certainly. My post was a comment on the lack of context.
Wouldn't you think that the fragment "What sort of plant can ..." almost begs to be finished when you're asking what 'plant' means?
Eg. "What sort of plant can be distilled into the type of poison we need? And what sort of plant do we need to produce it?" asked Smiley.

Thank you all for your cooperation.I did not include the complete sentence because I had imgined it would not be necessary. I was wrong. Here is the complete paragraph: 'All right. The Russians have turned Tarr round (ATTENTION: it´s not AROUND, it really is ROUND. What is that?). They have sent his Family over - God knows why, I'd have thought they put them again in the bank (ADDITIoNAL QUESTION: WHAT THIS SENTENCE PUT THEM AGAIN IN THE BANK means ??) And they 've sent him (over?) too. Why's it all so HOT ? What sort of plant can he be when we don't believe a word he says" END OF PARAGRAPH. Certainly "plant" is not the vegetation or the industrial installation. " I think HOT is not related to physical temperature. So far, I think Tdol answer is the most adequate, despite the fact that is not complete. But it's good!Please, feel free to help me. Tks

 

[Raymott]

Thank you all for your cooperation.I did not include the complete sentence because I had imgined it would not be necessary. I was wrong. Here is the complete paragraph: 'All right. The Russians have turned Tarr round (ATTENTION: it´s not AROUND, it really is ROUND. What is that?). They have sent his Family over - God knows why, I'd have thought they put them again in the bank (ADDITIoNAL QUESTION: WHAT THIS SENTENCE PUT THEM AGAIN IN THE BANK means ??) And they 've sent him (over?) too. Why's it all so HOT ? What sort of plant can he be when we don't believe a word he says" END OF PARAGRAPH. Certainly "plant" is not the vegetation or the industrial installation. " I think HOT is not related to physical temperature. So far, I think Tdol answer is the most adequate, despite the fact that is not complete. But it's good!Please, feel free to help me. Tks

To turn something "round" is colloquial for "around". I would always use 'around' in this context.
Not sure about "the bank".
Yes, you were lucky that Tdol read your post. There's no guarantee you would have got correct answers without him (or without the new context).

 

[BobK]

It's a while since I read it, but I imagine it means that they persuaded him to change sides and become their agent. :up:If something's hot, it is controversial/dangerous, etc. A plant is someone working for you inside another organisation.

I'm not sure about the rest - it depends on the missing context. If the context is a general one - spy thrillers - you're rgiht. Hot and plant mean those things.

But suppose the missing context is someone interviewing a grower of tropical plants: 'Why's it all so hot? What sort of plant can survive in heat like this?' We really do need to know more.

b

 

[Raymott]

I'm not sure about the rest - it depends on the missing context. If the context is a general one - spy thrillers - you're rgiht. Hot and plant mean those things.
b

So does that mean that a spy thriller writer cannot use any common terms in the usual way if they have special meanings in spy fiction? They can't say "He has a hot Rumanian wife" because 'hot' has to mean controversial or dangerous. And she certainly couldn't have botany as a hobby.
In plain terms, and in my opinion, 'hot' and 'plant' do not have those meanings simply by virtue of being in a spy thriller. They have those meanings because they make sense in the narrower context.

 

[BobK]

Ahem - withdrawn

'The bank' is presumably some kind of temporary holding facility for as-yet unplaced aliens. They've turned the spy and brought his family over to the UK as a sign of good faith, but they haven't agreed terms with the defector so they haven't made final arrangements for accommodating his family. His opening bargaining position might be 'I'm a valuable asset and I've taken a huge risk. I want full indemnity, 24-hour protection for my family, and a detached house in Mayfair.' MI5's response might be 'Nonsense. We'll discuss what you can do for us and what we can do in return. In the meantime we'll look after your familly.' I have no idea what the 'again' is doing. It suggests to me (by its position) that the speaker is not a native speaker of English, in which case they may be using again to mean something that it wouldn't mean in the sentence 'They've put them in the bank again'.

b

 

[BobK]

So does that mean that a spy thriller writer cannot use any common terms in the usual way if they have special meanings in spy fiction? Of course not - as the rest of my post showed. ;-)
They can't say "He has a hot Rumanian wife" because 'hot' has to mean controversial or dangerous. And she certainly couldn't have botany as a hobby.
In plain terms, and in my opinion, 'hot' and 'plant' do not have those meanings simply by virtue of being in a spy thriller. They have those meanings because they make sense in the narrower context.

Of course.

b