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  1. #11
    HanibalII is offline Member
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    Default Re: Language is the underpin of our society

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    I don't follow. Are you now saying that 'literacy practices' (whatever that means) or 'being literate in the 21st century' are responsible for every action that takes place?
    Educational terms...
    Maybe they're taught as something different out of Australia. We're taught that language is used for everything, and literacy practices is the 'pattern of activity around literacy'. For example, reading a book that follows a specific set of practices. IE top to bottom, left to right. Most basic.

    So what I'm trying to say is, language is responsible, through the many different literacy practices we use, and that being literate in the 21st century is a requirement for those actions to take place...






    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    This casual attitude to the meaning of words and sentences might work out in Wagga Wagga; it could even be normal there. Is that where you're going to teach?
    By the way, the question about critical thinking was literal. If they don't teach such a course at Charles Stuart, you could enrol in one through OUA. I'd recommend Macquarie's PHI120.
    I'm in Albury. It's an idea.

    This was just a spur of the moment write up.

    Obviously not enough thought went into the ideas I wished to convey. But by the sounds of it, you guys haven't been prescribed the same educational textbooks as me.
    I'm not a teacher yet, but I am studying a Bachelor of Education with an English Literature major at Charles Sturt University, in NSW, Australia.

  2. #12
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Language is the underpin of our society

    Quote Originally Posted by HanibalII View Post
    Educational terms...
    Maybe they're taught as something different out of Australia. We're taught that language is used for everything,
    There are three possibilities (and probably more):
    1. You have misunderstood what you have been taught.
    2. In the materials you use, 'language' is used in a very broad sense indeed.
    3. The materials you are using are suspect.

    In the sense that most of us use the word 'language, it is not used for everything.

    Let's just take one very crude example. If my wife sees me working in the garden, throwing the spade down and sitting on a bench, she may well bring me out a cold beer. I may smile my appreciation. Or, she may bring out two beers, in which case I will shift my backside from the centre of the bench to one side to give her room to sit down. No language, in the sense that I normally use the word, has been used, but actions have occurred.
    and literacy practices is the 'pattern of activity around literacy'. For example, reading a book that follows a specific set of practices. IE top to bottom, left to right. Most basic.
    What has that to do with "'Language is the social underpin of our society, responsible for every action that takes place'?
    So what I'm trying to say is, language is responsible, through the many different literacy practices we use, and that being literate in the 21st century is a requirement for those actions to take place...
    Language is responsible for what? Literacy is clearly a requirement for reading to take place, but I really cannot see what other point you are trying to make.
    But by the sounds of it, you guys haven't been prescribed the same educational textbooks as me.
    It's nothing to do with textbooks. I am trying to make sense of what you are saying.
    Please do not edit your question after it has received a response. Such editing can make the response hard for others to understand.


  3. #13
    HanibalII is offline Member
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    Default Re: Language is the underpin of our society

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    There are three possibilities (and probably more):
    1. You have misunderstood what you have been taught.
    2. In the materials you use, 'language' is used in a very broad sense indeed.
    3. The materials you are using are suspect.

    In the sense that most of us use the word 'language, it is not used for everything.

    Let's just take one very crude example. If my wife sees me working in the garden, throwing the spade down and sitting on a bench, she may well bring me out a cold beer. I may smile my appreciation. Or, she may bring out two beers, in which case I will shift my backside from the centre of the bench to one side to give her room to sit down. No language, in the sense that I normally use the word, has been used, but actions have occurred.What has that to do with "'Language is the social underpin of our society, responsible for every action that takes place'?Language is responsible for what? Literacy is clearly a requirement for reading to take place, but I really cannot see what other point you are trying to make.It's nothing to do with textbooks. I am trying to make sense of what you are saying.

    Only reading?


    Literacy encompasses reading/writing/listening/comprehending/representing etc. Not just in written word. This is specifically why I mentioned the 21st century. She may construe you sitting down to be a sign? (literacy) and bring you a cold beverage because of that. She didn't bring you a beer while you were still working, she brought you one when you stopped working.

    So yes, language is used in a very broad sense. It's what my textbooks tells me.
    I'm not a teacher yet, but I am studying a Bachelor of Education with an English Literature major at Charles Sturt University, in NSW, Australia.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Language is the underpin of our society

    Quote Originally Posted by HanibalII View Post
    Literacy encompasses reading/writing/listening/comprehending/representing etc. Not just in written word. This is specifically why I mentioned the 21st century. She may construe you sitting down to be a sign? (literacy) and bring you a cold beverage because of that. She didn't bring you a beer while you were still working, she brought you one when you stopped working.

    So yes, language is used in a very broad sense. It's what my textbooks tells me.
    Could you please produce some evidence from your textbooks that my wife's interpretation of my sitting down is in some way connected with literacy?
    Please do not edit your question after it has received a response. Such editing can make the response hard for others to understand.


  5. #15
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Language is the underpin of our society

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    Could you please produce some evidence from your textbooks that my wife's interpretation of my sitting down is in some way connected with literacy?
    ps. If you do, then I assume that many animals and birds are literate, in the sense that they can interpret the actions of their fellow animals and birds. If that's the case, then we are rather changing the traditional views of 'language' and 'literacy'.
    Please do not edit your question after it has received a response. Such editing can make the response hard for others to understand.


  6. #16
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    Default Re: Language is the underpin of our society

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    ps. If you do, then I assume that many animals and birds are literate, in the sense that they can interpret the actions of their fellow animals and birds. If that's the case, then we are rather changing the traditional views of 'language' and 'literacy'.
    There is a movement towards the (odd, to me) broadening of the term literacy to apply to things other than written words. In thiis metaphorical use it can bear any number of meanings; users often take pity on their audience and prepose an adjective e.g. 'digital literacy'. The upshot of this is that the word can become countable, and people talk about 'literacies'. Recent Applied Linguistics text books do this sort of thing - I can look a few out if required, but I'm not sure it would achieve much. I think this discussion may be prey to cross-purposes.

    b
    Last edited by BobK; 24-May-2013 at 15:53. Reason: Repaired accidental damage to the quote

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Language is the underpin of our society

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    There is a movement towards the (odd, to me) broadening of the term literacy to apply to things other than written words. In thiis metaphorical use it can bear any number of meanings; users often take pity on their audience and prepose an adjective e.g. 'digital literacy'. The upshot of this is that the word can become countable, and people talk about 'literacies'. Recent Applied Linguistics text books do this sort of thing - I can look a few out if required, but I'm not sure it would achieve much. I think this discussion may be prey to cross-purposes.

    b
    I think a significant part of this is postmodernism and the grip it has on academia. Even if you don't understand it, it's easy to start using their contentless words to avoid thinking about what you actually want to say.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Language is the underpin of our society

    Amen to that. I certainly wasn't looking forward to wading through that stuff again.

    b

  9. #19
    HanibalII is offline Member
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    Default Re: Language is the underpin of our society

    So I think what I'm understanding from your posts is that you don't approve of the use of literacy to include anything other than reading and writing?
    I'm not a teacher yet, but I am studying a Bachelor of Education with an English Literature major at Charles Sturt University, in NSW, Australia.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Language is the underpin of our society

    Quote Originally Posted by HanibalII View Post
    So I think what I'm understanding from your posts is that you don't approve of the use of literacy to include anything other than reading and writing?
    If the word is being used in that way, then my approval or disapproval is irrelevant.

    I am concerned with the discussion in this thread. You started by asking our opinion of. "'Language is the social underpin of our society, responsible for every action that takes place."

    It became apparent that you were using 'language' in a rather broader sense than most of us do. When asked about this, you wrote, "More so literacy practices. More or less, being 'literate in the 21st century'." When I asked you about 'literacy practices', you wrote, "We're taught that language is used for everything, and literacy practices is the 'pattern of activity around literacy'. For example, reading a book that follows a specific set of practices. IE top to bottom, left to right. Most basic." That sounds to me like reading and writing.

    Three posts later, you wrote, "Literacy encompasses reading/writing/listening/comprehending/representing etc. Not just in written word. This is specifically why I mentioned the 21st century. She may construe you sitting down to be a sign? (literacy) and bring you a cold beverage because of that."

    You are using words without defining the special ways in which you are using them, and then changing the definition as you go along. If you have this sort of question in the future, please define your terms before we start.
    Last edited by 5jj; 25-May-2013 at 11:04. Reason: typo
    Please do not edit your question after it has received a response. Such editing can make the response hard for others to understand.


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