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  1. #1
    Carolina1983 is offline Junior Member
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    Default A grand castle and a grand piano!

    Hello, all!

    How do you pronounce 'grand piano' and 'grand castle'? Do you drop the 'd' altogether?

    Thanks, as always!

  2. #2
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    probus is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: A grand castle and a grand piano!

    Not at all! I always sound the d. I am having a tough time thinking of a case in which such a terminal consonant would be swallowed. Even in very rapid speech when the next word starts with a vowel I think there is still at least a vestige of that final d. In other words, where I live stand up never sounds quite like stan up.

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    Default Re: A grand castle and a grand piano!

    Quote Originally Posted by Carolina1983 View Post
    Hello, all!

    How do you pronounce 'grand piano' and 'grand castle'? Do you drop the 'd' altogether?

    Thanks, as always!
    In AmE the 'd' is definitely pronounced! Why would you think that the 'd' would be dropped?

  4. #4
    Carolina1983 is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: A grand castle and a grand piano!

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigos4 View Post
    In AmE the 'd' is definitely pronounced! Why would you think that the 'd' would be dropped?

    I read that t and d, when they are final and come between consonants, are likely to be dropped. As in next week. Then, I remembered I heard someone say gran for grand and it sounded off to me, hence my question. I guess people sometimes go way off base when it comes to spoken English.

    Anyway, thank you so much!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: A grand castle and a grand piano!

    In AusE and many dialects, the /d/ is often dropped (or minimized) in common phrases like "grandmother" or "grand piano". "Grand castle" is not a common term, so the /d/ should be pronounced. People are very unlikely to misunderstand 'granmother', but they might have to ask you what a "grancastle" is.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: A grand castle and a grand piano!

    Frequently dropped or swallowed in BrE.
    Remember - correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing make posts much easier to read.

  7. #7
    N Senbei is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: A grand castle and a grand piano!

    Hello, Carolina1983.

    Alan Cruttenden, in the seventh edition of Gimson’s Pronunciation of English, says:

    In addition to the loss of /h/ in pronominal weak forms and other consonantal elisions typical of weak forms (see §11.3), the alveolar plosives are apt to be elided. Such elision appears to take place most readily when /t/ or /d/ is the middle one of three consonants. Any consonant may appear in third position, though elision of the alveolar plosive is relatively rare before /h/ and /j/. Thus elision is common in the sequence voiceless continuant + /t/ or voiced continuant + /d/ (e.g. /-st, -ft, -ʃt, -nd, -ld, -zd, -ğd, -vd/) followed by a word with an initial consonant …

    … It will be seen that in many cases, e.g. in I walked back, They seemed glad, elision of word-final /t/ or /d/ eliminates the phonetic cue of past tense, compensation for which is made by the general context. Such is the instability of the alveolar plosives in suck a position of apparent inflexional significance that it can be assumed that the context regularly carries the burden of tense distinction. Where the juxtaposition of words brings together a cluster of consonants (particularly of stops), elision of a plosive medial in three or more is to be expected, since, because of the normal lack of release of a stop in such a situation, the only cue to its presence is likely the be the total duration of closure.


    Since I'm just a non-native learner, I can’t say for sure that this applies to “grand castle” and “grand piano”, but at least both seem to meet the above condition, “voiced continuant + /d/ followed by a word with an initial consonant.”

  8. #8
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    Default Re: A grand castle and a grand piano!

    I bet Alan Cruttenden was the life of the party on more than one occasion!

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