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Thread: wɪ, or ,wɪθ

  1. #1
    celtaflorida is offline Junior Member
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    wɪ, or ,wɪθ

    Greetings.
    Is there a certain situation where the sound of 'th' in preposition 'with' has to be voiced or unvoiced?
    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Raymott's Avatar
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    Re: wɪ, or ,wɪθ

    Quote Originally Posted by celtaflorida View Post
    Greetings.
    Is there a certain situation where the sound of 'th' in preposition 'with' has to be voiced or unvoiced?
    Thanks.
    No. The default is 'wiθ'. Sometimes the phonetic environment might lead to a voiced 'th', but there's no rule saying you have to do that. I can't think of an example just now of where I'd use a voiced 'th'.

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    Carolina1983 is offline Junior Member
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    Re: wɪ, or ,wɪθ

    "With them" would be a nice example for voiced th in with, I think. Not mandatory, course.

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    Re: wɪ, or ,wɪθ

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    No. The default is 'wiθ'. Sometimes the phonetic environment might lead to a voiced 'th', but there's no rule saying you have to do that. I can't think of an example just now of where I'd use a voiced 'th'.
    What about 'with you'? Would 'th' be also naturally voiceless?

    Incidentally, OALD, thefreedictionary, dictionary.com have both voiced and unvoiced versions while Cambridge knows only the voiced one, at least in transcription.

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    Re: wɪ, or ,wɪθ


  6. #6
    Asdherel is offline Newbie
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    Re: wɪ, or ,wɪθ

    Hello!
    The default form of "with" is /wɪ/. We use the voiceless final consonant (/wɪθ/) when the following consonant is voiceless as well.
    Information taken from my university notes and the Cambridge English Pronouncing Dictionary.

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    Re: wɪ, or ,wɪθ

    Quote Originally Posted by euncu View Post
    Thanks a lot. (Always motivating to know which side you are on, even if seemingly by chance )

  8. #8
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    Re: wɪ, or ,wɪθ

    Quote Originally Posted by Esgaleth View Post
    What about 'with you'? Would 'th' be also naturally voiceless?
    I use a theta in "with you". But, as we've seen, there is so much variation that to say a certain form is natural is untrue.

  9. #9
    natkretep's Avatar
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    Re: wɪ, or ,wɪθ

    Please do have a look at the other thread mentioned.

    Most (non-Scottish) British speakers have /wɪ/ and most American speakers have /wɪθ/,and I think most use // for without and within. (And I'm discounting some other pronunciations like the Cockney /wɪv/.)

  10. #10
    BobK's Avatar
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    Re: wɪ, or ,wɪθ

    That Cockney thing is called Th-fronting, and - as natkretep probably knows - applies much more widely than to this one word.

    b

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