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  1. #1
    The apprentice is offline Member
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    Default The formation of the colloquial phrase WANNA

    Hello to all members and teachers:


    As I said in a previous thread, in american English (AmE) in the consonant cluster /nt/, when the alveolar nasal /n/ followed by the alveolar stop /t/ is intervocalic and the second vowel is unstressed, the voiceless alveolar stop /t/ is lost, and the voiced nasal alveolar /n/ becomes the one being pronounced, thus occurring a nasal stop as in words like :

    Identify
    / aɪˈdɛnɪˌfaɪ /; internet /ˈɪnərnɛt /; twenty /ˈtwɛnɪ /; wanted / wɒnɪd /


    It seems to me that this is the reason for the formation of the colloquial phrase WANNA which are informally used instead of '' want to''.

    WANT TO /wɒnt /

    1) In the phonetic transcrition of the phrase '' want to '', the first word ''want'' ends with the phoneme /t/, and the next one begins with the same phoneme, so when a word ends and begins with the same phoneme, it is pronounced just as one phoneme. In the second word of this phrase, the vowel /o/ in ''to'' changes into Schwa, thus forming the following sound /wɒn/

    2) If the /nt/ cluster rule is followed, this phrase would sound as /wɒnə/

    OBSERVATIONS:

    a) I'm not sure I am right, but this may be a possibility, so, why is the reason that ''want to'' when used as''wanna'' has double phoneme /n/ and the vowel /o/ changes into vowel /a/, phonetically sounding as /wɒnnə/?

    b) This may also be the same case for ''gonna'' , but with something else in difference.


    Please, I would like an explanation in this matter, that intrigues me.


    Thanks and regards to all you,



    The Apprentice

    Last edited by The apprentice; 05-Dec-2013 at 06:21. Reason: Editing

  2. #2
    probus's Avatar
    probus is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: The formation of the colloquial phrase WANNA

    Quote Originally Posted by The apprentice View Post
    Hello to all members and teachers:


    As I said in a previous thread, in american English (AmE) in the consonant cluster /nt/, when the alveolar nasal /n/ followed by the alveolar stop /t/ is intervocalic and the second vowel is unstressed, the voiceless alveolar stop /t/ is lost, and the voiced nasal alveolar /n/ becomes the one being pronounced, thus occurring a nasal stop as in words like :

    Identify
    / aɪˈdɛnɪˌfaɪ /; internet /ˈɪnərnɛt /; twenty /ˈtwɛnɪ /; wanted / wɒnɪd /


    It seems to me that this is the reason for the formation of the colloquial phrase WANNA which are informally used instead of '' want to''.

    WANT TO /wɒnt /

    1) In the phonetic transcrition of the phrase '' want to '', the first word ''want'' ends with the phoneme /t/, and the next one begins with the same phoneme, so when a word ends and begins with the same phoneme, it is pronounced just as one phoneme. In the second word of this phrase, the vowel /o/ in ''to'' changes into Schwa, thus forming the following sound /wɒn/

    2) If the /nt/ cluster rule is followed, this phrase would sound as /wɒnə/

    Your knowledge of phonetics is clearly beyond mine, but I can assure you that both /wonte/ amd /wone/ are heard. I've always assumed that the difference depended on how rapidly and carelessly the speaker was talking.

    OBSERVATIONS:

    a) I'm not sure I am right, but this may be a possibility, so, why is the reason that ''want to'' when used as''wanna'' has double phoneme /n/ and the vowel /o/ changes into vowel /a/, phonetically sounding as /wɒnnə/?

    This may astonish you in view of the careful academic way you have posed your question. I honestly believe that both wanna and gonna are products of orthographic conventions adopted by cartoonists writing in dialogue balloons. Way back in the 19230's and 30's they wrote wanna and gonna to show that the dialogue was racy and colloquial, and it stuck. In neither case is the /n/ actually doubled.

    b) This may also be the same case for ''gonna'' , but with something else in difference.


    Please, I would like an explanation in this matter, that intrigues me.


    Thanks and regards to all you,



    The Apprentice

    Last edited by probus; 05-Dec-2013 at 16:14.

  3. #3
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: The formation of the colloquial phrase WANNA

    Quote Originally Posted by The apprentice View Post
    /o/ in ''to'' changes into Schwa, thus forming the following sound /wɒn/
    When the preposition or infinitive particle 'to' is in an unstressed position, the /u:/ vowel is usually weakened to schwa or, before a vowel, /u/. This is not a peculiarity of 'want to'.

    a) I'm not sure I am right, but this may be a possibility, so, why is the reason that ''want to'' when used as''wanna'' has double phoneme /n/ and the vowel /o/ changes into vowel /a/, phonetically sounding as /wɒnnə/
    The /ɒ/ vowel of 'want to' does not change significantly in the informal 'wanna'. There is only a single /n/ phoneme in 'wanna'.

  4. #4
    The apprentice is offline Member
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    Default Re: The formation of the colloquial phrase WANNA

    Thank you 5jj for your answer:

    a) I mean why the the vowel or letter /o/ changes into /a/, but as you just explained in your previous reply must be the work of catoonists.

    b) In regard to the double phoneme in the phrase WANNA, I made the question wrong, I wanted to mean why when the phrase WANT TO changes into WANNA, takes a double ''NN''.

    My regards to you 5jj

    Last edited by The apprentice; 08-Dec-2013 at 15:43.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: The formation of the colloquial phrase WANNA

    Ha, haa, haaa.

    No 5jj, my knowledge is not at your level; I would like, but your replies are always very convincing to me.

    I would also like to see your comment in a previous thread I posted about the elision of the Schwa sound.


    Thank you 5jj.
    Last edited by The apprentice; 06-Dec-2013 at 17:02. Reason: spelling

  6. #6
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    Default Re: The formation of the colloquial phrase WANNA

    Quote Originally Posted by The apprentice View Post
    Ha, haa, haaa.

    No 5jj, my knowledge is not at you level; I would like, but your replies are always very convincing to me.

    I would also like to see your comment in a previous thread I posted about the elision of the Schwa sound.


    Thank you 5jj.


    5jj has posted the second answer. The first one was posted by Probus, isn't it?

  7. #7
    The apprentice is offline Member
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    Default Re: The formation of the colloquial phrase WANNA

    Hello jorgebessa:


    The one I was referring to, it is one I posted
    titled ''Elision of the Schwa sound''.

    I would like to see some comments about it.

    Yes, you are right, the first one was not by 5jj, I sent my apology to Probus.


    Thanks and Regards,



    The Apprentice.
    Last edited by The apprentice; 07-Dec-2013 at 17:11.

  8. #8
    The apprentice is offline Member
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    Default Re: The formation of the colloquial phrase WANNA

    Hello dear Probus:

    I owe you an apology, I did not noticed it was your name in the first reply, but anyway thank you for your answer and excuse for the confusion.

    Probus, I would also like to see your comment in a previous thread I posted before titled : ''Elision of Schwa sound''.


    Very sincerely and respecfully,



    The Apprentice.

  9. #9
    konungursvia's Avatar
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    Default Re: The formation of the colloquial phrase WANNA

    Some of the issues are due to the anatomy of the mouth, rather than English per se. Try and pronounce either 'wanna' or 'gonna' (I hate to see them in writing, but can tolerate them in speech) -- try and pronounce either without making some kind of plosive sound upon releasing the tongue from the palate. You can't. We are dealing here with minimal perceptible phenomena. In reality, the dropped American /t/ is never entirely dropped; we can hear it, but don't need it for phonemic distinctions. I think the OP places too much faith in the pop-culture spelling of the two pseudo-words.

  10. #10
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: The formation of the colloquial phrase WANNA

    Quote Originally Posted by konungursvia View Post
    Some of the issues are due to the anatomy of the mouth, rather than English per se. Try and pronounce either 'wanna' or 'gonna' (I hate to see them in writing, but can tolerate them in speech) -- try and pronounce either without making some kind of plosive sound upon releasing the tongue from the palate. You can't. We are dealing here with minimal perceptible phenomena. In reality, the dropped American /t/ is never entirely dropped; we can hear it, but don't need it for phonemic distinctions. I think the OP places too much faith in the pop-culture spelling of the two pseudo-words.
    I don't agree. I think many people pronounce the forms we spell as 'wanna' and 'gonna' as they are spelt. There is no more vestige of /t/ in these expressions than in, for example, 'honour'.

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