Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 19 of 19
  1. #11
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • Philippines
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    41,642
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Embankment, esplanade, quay or...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alvib View Post
    That's pretty strange and weird. In Russia we have one word for that phenomenon - "naberezhnaya" (like "a paved area on the shore" or "street along the shore"). And even if one lives miles away from lakes, rivers or sea, he/she still knows this word (he will certainly understand this word and will not suggest any other for naming that object).
    English was formed by different languages merging, leaving it with marked dialects, and then some of it emigrated to very different countries where it adapted to local conditions, which means that words for describing features of the natural and built environment may vary from region to region and variant to variant.

  2. #12
    Alvib is offline Newbie
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Interested in Language
      • Native Language:
      • Russian
      • Home Country:
      • Russian Federation
      • Current Location:
      • Russian Federation
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Embankment, esplanade, quay or...

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    I would be surprised if every Russian living miles from water knew exactly what a "naberezhnaya" was.
    I can not grant that. And I doubt that anyone could find it out accurately. But, honestly, I am ready to bet that everyone in Russia who has graduated from school knows this word and its meaning. Unfortunately, now I suspect you of language relativism.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    It's not weird at all. There are many varieties and major dialects of English. There is no universal English grammar, and no universal English lexicon. I know little about Russian, but it would be almost unique among languages spoken by millions of people if it did not have different words for certain things in its dialects. I would be surprised if every Russian living miles from water knew exactly what a "naberezhnaya" was.
    I am not a language expert. But I think that English got acquainted with such object long long before these varieties of dialects appeared. Thus, this phenomenon must have been reflected in English language (uniformly).
    Last edited by Alvib; 20-Jan-2014 at 11:26.

  3. #13
    5jj's Avatar
    5jj is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    28,169
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Embankment, esplanade, quay or...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alvib View Post
    Unfortunately, now I suspect you of language relativism.
    I don't know what I wrote that gave you that impression.
    I am not a language expert. But I think that English got acquainted with such object long long before this varieties of dialects appeared.
    Actually, the early dialects came before there was really one language. According to the OED, the fist use of the word in this sense was in 1681, quite late in the development of the language.
    Thus, this phenomenon must have been reflected in English language.
    I doubt if people in England in the first half of the last millennium spent much time constructing places to stroll along the shore. As they didn't have the thing, it's no surprise that they didn't have a word for it.
    Please do not edit your question after it has received a response. Such editing can make the response hard for others to understand.


  4. #14
    Alvib is offline Newbie
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Interested in Language
      • Native Language:
      • Russian
      • Home Country:
      • Russian Federation
      • Current Location:
      • Russian Federation
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Embankment, esplanade, quay or...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    English was formed by different languages merging, leaving it with marked dialects, and then some of it emigrated to very different countries where it adapted to local conditions, which means that words for describing features of the natural and built environment may vary from region to region and variant to variant.
    I would understand that if we were speaking about differences between "embankment" and "dam".

  5. #15
    5jj's Avatar
    5jj is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    28,169
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Embankment, esplanade, quay or...

    Dams and embankment are different things and, not surprisingly have different names.

    Sometimes the same thing has different names - AmE sidewalk is BrE pavement, for example. This is also not surprising given the way English has developed.
    Please do not edit your question after it has received a response. Such editing can make the response hard for others to understand.


  6. #16
    PeterValk is offline Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Interested in Language
      • Native Language:
      • Dutch
      • Home Country:
      • Netherlands
      • Current Location:
      • Russian Federation
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    345
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Embankment, esplanade, quay or...

    Usually "naberezhnaya" would be translated as "embankment" and, as far as I know, is a word known to most Russians, whether they are living near any kind of river, sea or lake or not.
    (I actually live on one of those in Moscow, Naberezhnaya Tarasa Shevchenko)
    "shoreline" is used when you walk along the waters' edge near the sea.
    "along the banks of the river" describes a more natural border between water and land.
    Peter
    (I'm not a teacher or a native English speaker. I'm just trying to help...)

  7. #17
    5jj's Avatar
    5jj is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Retired English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    28,169
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Embankment, esplanade, quay or...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterValk View Post
    Usually "naberezhnaya" would be translated as "embankment"
    We have already established that it would not usually be translated as 'embankment'..
    "shoreline" is used when you walk along the waters' edge near the sea.
    You can walk along the shoreline in places, but 'shoreline' is basically just the edge of a body of water. It is not automatically associated with walking.
    Please do not edit your question after it has received a response. Such editing can make the response hard for others to understand.


  8. #18
    emsr2d2's Avatar
    emsr2d2 is offline Moderator
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • UK
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    21,405
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Embankment, esplanade, quay or...

    In BrE, you can't even rely on something being called the same thing in the same area of the country. This is Brighton promenade. This is Hove esplanade. They are actually the same stretch of paved area alongside the beach in two towns (Brighton and Hove) which are actually now one combined city ("Brighton and Hove").
    Remember - correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing make posts much easier to read.

  9. #19
    Alvib is offline Newbie
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Interested in Language
      • Native Language:
      • Russian
      • Home Country:
      • Russian Federation
      • Current Location:
      • Russian Federation
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: Embankment, esplanade, quay or...

    Quote Originally Posted by 5jj View Post
    Dams and embankment are different things and, not surprisingly have different names.
    I meant they have pretty similar functions. In case of "emankments", "quays" and "esplanades" functions differ greatly.

    Quote Originally Posted by emsr2d2 View Post
    In BrE, you can't even rely on something being called the same thing in the same area of the country. This is Brighton promenade. This is Hove esplanade. They are actually the same stretch of paved area alongside the beach in two towns (Brighton and Hove) which are actually now one combined city ("Brighton and Hove").
    These two words have quite the same meaning: you can find wiki-page that states that they are interchangeable. After some consideration now I would prefer to use "esplanade" or "promenade" for the phenomenon mentioned above.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Hotchalk