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Thread: Theodore

  1. #1
    tjgzi is offline Newbie
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    Question Theodore

    I am writing a computer program that will describe an English verb. Below is an enumeration of the types of verbs that I have put together. Please indicate any errors, if you will, that my enumeration may have. I derived this enumeration from the verbal use of "be", "have", "hath", "art" etc., and "//" precedes remarks of element. Thank you.

    // Regular verbs
    Transitive, // Verb can stand alone with out adverb
    Intransitive, // Verb requires adverb
    Perfect, // Verb may or may not have preceding adverb

    // Irregular verbs
    Transitive_Irregular, // Verb, Irregular inflections, can stand alone with out adverb
    Intransitive_Irregular, // Verb, Irregular inflections, requires adverb
    Perfect_Irregular, // Verb, Irregular inflections, may or may not have preceding adverb

    // Inflected verbs
    // Implication; that "used only in": (1st & 2nd), (1st & 3rd), and (2nd & 3rd) persons WILL NOT OCCUR
    Past_Simple_1st_Person, // Inflected Verb, Transitive, used only in first person
    Past_Simple_2nd_Person, // Inflected Verb, Transitive, used only in second person
    Past_Simple_3rd_Person, // Inflected Verb, Transitive, used only in third person
    Past_Simple, // Inflected Verb, Transitive, used in in all persons (-ED)

    Past_Participle_1st_Person, // Inflected Verb, Intransitive, used only in first person
    Past_Participle_2nd_Person, // Inflected Verb, Intransitive, used only in second person
    Past_Participle_3rd_Person, // Inflected Verb, Intransitive, used only in third person
    Past_Participle, // Inflected Verb, Intransitive, used in in all persons (-ED)

    Past_Tense_1st_Person, // Inflected Verb, Perfect, used only in first person
    Past_Tense_2nd_Person, // Inflected Verb, Perfect, used only in second person
    Past_Tense_3nd_Person, // Inflected Verb, Perfect, used only in third person
    Past_Tense, // Inflected Verb, Perfect, used in in all persons (-ED)

    Present_1st_Person_Singular, // Inflected Verb, used only in first person
    Present_2nd_Person_Singular, // Inflected Verb, used only in second person
    Present_3rd_Person_Singular, // Inflected Verb, used only in third person (-S)
    Present_Tense_Singular, // Inflected Verb, used in in all persons

    Present_1st_Person, // Inflected Verb, used only in first person
    Present_2nd_Person, // Inflected Verb, used only in second person
    Present_3rd_Person, // Inflected Verb, used only in third person
    Present_Tense// Inflected Verb, works in all persons (-ING)

  2. #2
    charliedeut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theodore

    Quote Originally Posted by tjgzi View Post
    // Regular verbs
    Transitive, // Verb can stand alone
    with out adverb

    // Irregular verbs
    Transitive_Irregular, // Verb, Irregular inflections, can stand alone
    with out adverb

    Why is "without" written that way? Is it a programming language must, or is just a mistake? Just curious.
    Please be aware that I'm neither a native English speaker nor a teacher.

  3. #3
    SoothingDave is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: Theodore

    What does "Theodore" have to do with anything?

  4. #4
    Raymott's Avatar
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    Default Re: Theodore

    Quote Originally Posted by tjgzi View Post

    // Inflected verbs
    // Implication; that "used only in": (1st & 2nd), (1st & 3rd), and (2nd & 3rd) persons WILL NOT OCCUR
    Sorry, I don't understand this.

    Past_Simple_1st_Person, // Inflected Verb, Transitive, used only in first person
    Past_Simple_2nd_Person, // Inflected Verb, Transitive, used only in second person
    Past_Simple_3rd_Person, // Inflected Verb, Transitive, used only in third person
    Past_Simple, // Inflected Verb, Transitive, used in in all persons (-ED)
    If you're going to include non-current verb forms like '[thou] art', you need both a singular 2nd person singular 'thou wert' and plural form 'you were'.

    Past_Participle_1st_Person, // Inflected Verb, Intransitive, used only in first person
    Past_Participle_2nd_Person, // Inflected Verb, Intransitive, used only in second person
    Past_Participle_3rd_Person, // Inflected Verb, Intransitive, used only in third person
    Past_Participle, // Inflected Verb, Intransitive, used in in all persons (-ED)
    Past participles are always the same for all persons. Isn't this an over-complication? Are you listing the (-ed) verbs in the last line? If so, do the first three relate to the strong past participles?

    Past_Tense_1st_Person, // Inflected Verb, Perfect, used only in first person
    Past_Tense_2nd_Person, // Inflected Verb, Perfect, used only in second person
    Past_Tense_3nd_Person, // Inflected Verb, Perfect, used only in third person
    Past_Tense, // Inflected Verb, Perfect, used in in all persons (-ED)

    What's the difference between the Past_Simple above and the Past_Tense? Is this the past perfect? In that case, where is the listing for present perfect, and the future 'tenses'?

    Present_1st_Person_Singular, // Inflected Verb, used only in first person
    Present_2nd_Person_Singular, // Inflected Verb, used only in second person
    Present_3rd_Person_Singular, // Inflected Verb, used only in third person (-S)
    Present_Tense_Singular, // Inflected Verb, used in in all persons

    Present_1st_Person, // Inflected Verb, used only in first person
    Present_2nd_Person, // Inflected Verb, used only in second person
    Present_3rd_Person, // Inflected Verb, used only in third person
    Present_Tense// Inflected Verb, works in all persons (-ING)
    The -ing form is 'continuous' or 'progressive'. Couldn't there be confusion between Present_1st_Person_Singular and Present_1st_Person?
    Again, the -ing form is always the same.
    I guess you have an algorithm that prevents multiple similar categorizations, like listing a verb as both 'Transitive' and 'Transitive_Irregular'. Why not call the regular transitive verbs 'Transitive_Regular'?
    I've given you a few suggestions, but they could be all wide of the mark. Your classifications confuse me - it's in neither natural language nor computer code. It's hard to know what assumptions your are going to insert into the final code.
    What happens to all the plural verbs - the ones that in modern English all have the same form as First Person Singular? Is this meant to classify all verbs? Too many questions.
    Have you written the pseudocode?

  5. #5
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: Theodore

    // Regular verbs
    Transitive, // Verb can stand alone with out adverb
    Intransitive, // Verb requires adverb
    Perfect, // Verb may or may not have preceding adverb
    What's perfect got to do with the other two categories? Perfect is an aspect, and both transitive and intransitive verbs can be used in the perfect aspect. Are you saying that the defining quality of an intransitive verb is that it requires an adverb? If so, where's the adverb here: She smiled? Intransitive verbs don't take an object- adverbs are optional add-ons in many cases (She smiled cheerfully).

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    tjgzi is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: Theodore

    I would like to thank all of you for your responses, and I apologize for the vagueness and ignorance on my part forming the question.

    What I am attempting to do is to construct a rigid set of rules for classifying verbs and inflections of verbs.
    The rules will be set in a table (actually a dictionary), much like a table of irregular verb inflections.
    I am looking to define each column of the table; where, each column is a possible (or impossible) form of a verb.
    The first column is the verb itself.

    Short Example of my original table:

    BEAR
    Past Simple Past Participle Present 3rd Per. Sing. Present Participle
    BORE BORN BEARS BEARING
    BORNE

    Then came this: BE WAS WERE WAST WERT BEEN IS ART BEING AM ARE
    WERT is a 2nd person singular past tense of BE (from Webster's Collegiate Dictionary).
    what is past tense (when a verb is both a past simple and past participle)?
    I found that my table is sufficient for most verbs, and not even close to being sufficient for others

    Therefore, I am trying to create a table that will be sufficient for all verbs. Including columns that may imply improper usage e.g. "You is all that".

    Again I apologize for my lack of the English language, I am a computer programmer proficient in mathematical theory. Which is why I am looking for a rigid solution.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Theodore

    "Rigid", "rules" and "English" = three words which should never appear in a sentence together.

    There are lot of variables in the English language. Yes, there are a lot of rules but there also a lot of exceptions and a lot of constructions which, when someone asks "Why?", the answer is "That's just how we say it".
    Remember - correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing make posts much easier to read.

  8. #8
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: Theodore

    How will it distinguish between bear (animal) and the verb?

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    Default Re: Theodore

    Will it cover spelling, for example:

    Spelling of the –s form

    -e is added before –s in verbs ending in a sibilant sound (-s, –ss, -z, -sh, -ch and –x)and in a single –o (but not those ending in –oo):

    hiss/hisses, buz/buzzes, wash/washes, catch/catches, box/boxes, go/goes

    but: boo/boos
    Before the –s ending in verbs with word-final single –s, some writers double the final –s of the first form before adding the –e; this is optional:
    gas/gases or gasses, focus/focuses or focuses
    With verbs ending in –y following a consonant, we change the –y to –i and add -es, but if the word-final –y follows a vowel/diphthong sound, we simply add –s:
    carry/carries, try/tries but: play/plays, employ/employs

    ?

  10. #10
    tjgzi is offline Newbie
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    Default Re: Theodore

    The most profound response yet! I feel the tension expressed in your reply every day as I tackle this solution, but I am up to the task.

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