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  1. #21
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    That's what they mean to me.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonBee
    V =verb
    S = subject
    O = object
    C = complement
    DO = direct object
    IO = indirect object

    Do I have all those right, grammar mavens?

    :wink:
    Yup. :D

    C has two functions: SC (a subject complement) after linking verbs et al (i.e. SVC), and OC (an object complement) after objects (i.e. SVOC).

    :D

  3. #23
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Is that a driect or indirect OC? )))

  4. #24
    RonBee's Avatar
    RonBee is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    Quote Originally Posted by RonBee
    V =verb
    S = subject
    O = object
    C = complement
    DO = direct object
    IO = indirect object

    Do I have all those right, grammar mavens?

    :wink:
    Yup. :D

    C has two functions: SC (a subject complement) after linking verbs et al (i.e. SVC), and OC (an object complement) after objects (i.e. SVOC).

    :D
    Thanks, Cas. :D

  5. #25
    jwschang Guest

    Default Re: Are the 5 basic sentence patterns sacred?

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    Quote Originally Posted by jwschang

    I think that we can look at it as a shortened adjective phrase with both the heading preposition "in" and (say) the noun "condition" abandoned, leaving only the modifier "brand new" from the adjective phrase "in a brand-new condition". As an adjective phrase, it's position is not abnormal, in "I sold him my car in a brand new condition". So, SVC? :wink:
    That's an interesting analysis.

    It'd be SVC is V were a linking verb et al, like this:

    My car is brand new. (SVC)

    Let's look at an SVOC structure:

    They named (V) the baby(O) George (C). (SVOC)

    'named' takes an object and that object requires a complement. In fact, if we switch the order of the object and the complement the result is ungrammatical:

    *They named (V) George (C) the baby (O).

    In short, with SVOC structures the O and the C cannot be switched. On the other hand, with SVOO structures the DO and the IO can be switched:

    I sold (V) him (IO) the car (DO) brand new. (SVOO+Adjunct)

    I sold (V) it (DO) to him (IO) brand new. (SVOO+Adjunct)

    Note, 'brand new' is added information; information not required by the verb to express its basic meaning. The same holds true for 'in a brand new condition', as well as other information that's not stated inside the verb's subcategorization frame:

    sold [something, to someone]; [someone, something]

    :D
    You're right. So, it's SVO, with the "brand-new" as a modifier of O.

  6. #26
    jwschang Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    Is 'brand' an adverb as it modifies 'new'?
    Interesting Q.
    Looks like it is: like, brand new = very new = like new. If not hypenated:
    1. brand new = adverb + adjective (although brand is a noun)
    2. very new = adverb + adjective
    3. like new = adverb + adjective (although like is a preposition too)
    4. slow-burn (cooker) = adjective + infinitive
    5. high-octane (fuel) = adjective + noun

    Language is too complicated to be sacred! Trouble is, a lot of things are sacred only because they are complicated. Don't understand, don't ask, it's sacred.

  7. #27
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    That's what I thought.

  8. #28
    jwschang Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    That's what I thought.
    That's enigmatic of you! Thought about the adverb or sacredness, or both?

  9. #29
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Both )

  10. #30
    James Guest

    Default Re: Are the 5 basic sentence patterns sacred?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork
    Quote Originally Posted by infinikyte
    So if it's just written SVOC, we wouldn't know whether the C complements S or O. Thus there are actually two forms: SVO(OC) and SVO(SC), right? However, by your explanation, isn't this sentence more like a reduction from "It struck me as it is an excellent plan"? So it's actually a subordinate clause type.
    No, "as" is a preposition in that sentence and is used in the normal fashion.
    Perhaps it should be, "It struck me as an excellent plan." I don't think you need the "it is" part. The "It" is a problem in this sentence as the "as an excellent plan" part is clearly a complement of "it" rather than of the object, "me". It is different from the "He makes me sick"-type of pattern as I am the one who is sickened by him. "I was struck by how it is an excellent plan.... hmmm.... I 'm confused.

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