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  1. #11
    Freeguy is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Me and my friends spent Sunday at the swimming pool.

    What do you define this part of Swan's claim?

    We often use object forms in double subjects in informal speech.
    John and me are going skiing this weekend.
    Me and the kids spent Sunday at the swimming pool.

    It means that he agrees on the accuracy of that.
    Last edited by Freeguy; 31-Mar-2014 at 18:54.

  2. #12
    Freeguy is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Me and my friends spent Sunday at the swimming pool.

    What does "wincer" mean in your sentence, Barb?

  3. #13
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    Roman55 is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Me and my friends spent Sunday at the swimming pool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freeguy View Post
    It means that he agrees on the accuracy of that.
    I am not a teacher.

    No, it means that people often use it in informal speech, nothing more.

    A wincer is someone who winces. It's in the dictionary.

  4. #14
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    emsr2d2 is offline Moderator
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    Default Re: Me and my friends spent Sunday at the swimming pool.

    I'm a wincer and a correcter. If I know someone well enough (or they are a student or a non-native speaker), I will tell them that, regardless of how many native speakers they hear using it, "Me and my friends/me and my dad" etc is poor English and that it should be "My friends and I/My dad and I" etc. I always give them the information I was given some 30 years ago by an excellent English 'O' Level teacher:

    If you want to work out if you should use "me" or "I" in that kind of situation, try removing the other person from the sentence and see if it still makes sense. For example:

    Me and my friends went to the cinema.
    Take your friends out of the equation and you are left with "Me went to the cinema". We all know that's wrong. The leftover sentence would need to be "I went to the cinema". Therefore, the original must be "My friends and I went to the cinema".

    My dad and I live in a house.
    Take your dad out of the equation and you are left with "Me live in a house". Again, we all know that is wrong. The sentence would be "I live in a house". Therefore, the original must be "My dad and I live in a house".
    Last edited by Barb_D; 31-Mar-2014 at 19:27. Reason: tiny typo
    Remember - correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing make posts much easier to read.

  5. #15
    5jj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Me and my friends spent Sunday at the swimming pool.

    It's 'poor English' only in the sense that prescriptivists have said it is for many years. I think that to describe a usage that is natural and normal in speech to a large minority of the population, and which is appearing in magazines and radio and TV programmes aimed at the large minority, as 'poor English' is subjectively judgemental.

    I wince at it myself, but then I am a shall/will and whom user in my private life.

    I agree that we do need to tell learners that 'me and my friends' is not accepted as correct by many teachers and examination boards, but I don't think it is any more 'poor English' than such things as.


    Who's there? It's me.
    Who are you talking to?
    To boldly go ...
    I didn't use to like it.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Me and my friends spent Sunday at the swimming pool.

    And there was me trying to avoid using "incorrect" or "not correct" or "not accepted as correct" by diplomatically saying "poor English". Sometimes I just can't win!
    Remember - correct capitalisation, punctuation and spacing make posts much easier to read.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Me and my friends spent Sunday at the swimming pool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freeguy View Post
    What do you define this part of Swan's claim?
    You really need to be citing page numbers, and preferably edition, so that we can what else he says.

  8. #18
    Raymott's Avatar
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    Default Re: Me and my friends spent Sunday at the swimming pool.

    I think it's relatively well-accepted that poor or substandard language use (English or otherwise) can lead to obstacles in education, jobs, promotions, etc. This isn't subjective. I'd wager that "Me and me mates go fishing" as a reply to a question about the person's interests in an interview would not increase the chances of that person getting a clerical job or a scholarship.
    The more liberal amongst us might think that unfair, but that doesn't make it not so.

  9. #19
    Freeguy is offline Senior Member
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    Default Re: Me and my friends spent Sunday at the swimming pool.

    Look at these pages from the third edition (fully revised):
    Section 428 - part 3 - page 403
    Section 429 - part 1- page 404
    Section 429- part 3- page 405

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Me and my friends spent Sunday at the swimming pool.

    Michael Swan aside, for me it is just incorrect. People can use that construction at their own risk.

    Me and Jimmy are going to the park, in some cases, has turned into Me and Jimmy be going to the park. Next will be Me and Jimmy be going to park.

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