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Thread: so (that)

  1. #1
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    so (that)

    Here is a question from a nationwide exam in Turkey. Which do you think is correct?

    He realized that the world could run out of key resources, ---- he was a harsh critic of the wastefulness of modern industrial society.

    A) so that
    B) whether
    C) so long as
    D) and so
    E) but

  2. #2
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Re: so (that)

    D)

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    Re: so (that)

    Well, hi, tdol. Thanks for the concise answer, but what about A? "So that" is also used for "result" in English.

    so

    1 used to give the reason why something happens, why someone does something etc: I heard a noise so I got out of bed and turned the light on. | There was no food in the house so we rang out for a pizza.

    so (that)

    b)
    used to say that something happens as a result of something else: Many contestants later failed drug tests, so that the race had to be rerun.

    Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English

    Renowned as a quick study, he learned stagecraft from the older actors around him, carefully absorbing everything they told him about acting, so that he was a veteran by the time he entered talkies in 1930 with Courage, playing Bill Colbrook, the good-natured member of Belle Bennett's greedy household; and Old English, made that same year, in which he appeared alongside George Arliss, one of the most respected actors of the era.

    http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movie...=35207&mod=bio

    The General behaved quite nicely, and really got into the spirit of the thing, so that he was a splendid example for the head of the class.

    http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:...r&ct=clnk&cd=6

    But there were a number of younger boys in the room who enjoyed it all very much, so that he was a real hero, and felt himself quite a favorite.

    http://www.google.com.tr/search?hl=t...berg.org&meta=

    He kept a little account in one bank and a big account in the other, so that he was a rich man or a poor man at the same time.

  4. #4
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    Re: so (that)

    so that!!

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    Re: so (that)

    From bartleby.com:

    so or so that in purpose clauses. Many people insist that so must be followed by that in formal writing when used to introduce a clause giving the reason for or the purpose of an action:

    He stayed so that he could see the movie a second time.

    But since many respected writers use so for so that in formal writing, it seems best to consider the issue one of stylistic preference:

    The store stays open late so (or so that) people who work all day can buy groceries.

    so or so that in result clauses. It is acceptable to use either so or so that to introduce clauses that state a result or consequence:

    The Bay Bridge was still closed, so (or so that) the drive from San Francisco to the Berkeley campus took an hour and a half.

    All the best.

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    Re: so (that)

    hi, Casiopea, then what do you think of this question? It was administered nationwide in March 2006. What would your evaluation be?

  7. #7
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    Re: so (that)

    "so (that)" is synonymous with "(and) so", "therefore":

    [1] The Bay Bridge was still closed, (and) so/ (and) therefore the drive from San Francisco to the Berkeley campus took an hour and a half.

    [2] He realized that the world could run out of key resources, (and) so / (and) therefore he was a harsh critic of the wastefulness of modern industrial society.

    Now, while both "(and) so", "therefore" work in [1] and [2], "so that" doesn't work for [2] - so says my native intuition,

    [2] He realized that the world could run out of key resources, *so that he was a harsh critic of the wastefulness of modern industrial society.

    Notice that the subject in each clause in example [2] is the same, whereas with example [1] the subjects are different:

    [1] The Bay Bridge . . ., so (that) the drive
    [2] He . . . , so *(that) he

    Additionally, the test question lists conjunctions, two of which, A) "so that" and D) "and so", appear to be possible answers. The better answer is alwaysthe one that fits the mold perfectly. "and so" does that, whereas "so that" is somewhat questionable given that every grammar source I've look over these past two days, aside from bartleby.com, doesn't seem to say anything about "so that" being used to introduce result or consquence clauses.

    bartleby.com describes "so that" in result or consquence clauses as being 'acceptable' (ahem, which doesn't mean to say it's deemed Grammatical by prescriptivists, a.k.a traditional grammarians - the ones who put the "S" in Standard English). And, ask yourself this, why the need to state the above acceptance if "so that" weren't a notorious confusable?

    Where preceded by a comma, "so that" means consquently, and where not preceded by a comma, it means in order that.
    Writers often confuse the two, and the reason "so that" shows up on tests. bartleby notes an exception, or rather describes how speakers are using "so that". But upon closer look, "so that" doesn't seem to work for all result or consquence clauses,

    [3] *I fell down, so that I broke my leg. ungrammatical

    My native intuition tells me "so that" doesn't work for [3] in the same way that it doesn't work for [2].

    Hope that helps.

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    Re: so (that)

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    "so (that)" is synonymous with "(and) so", "therefore":
    [1] The Bay Bridge was still closed, (and) so/ (and) therefore the drive from San Francisco to the Berkeley campus took an hour and a half.
    [2] He realized that the world could run out of key resources, (and) so / (and) therefore he was a harsh critic of the wastefulness of modern industrial society.
    Now, while both "(and) so", "therefore" work in [1] and [2], "so that" doesn't work for [2] - so says my native intuition,
    [2] He realized that the world could run out of key resources, *so that he was a harsh critic of the wastefulness of modern industrial society.
    Notice that the subject in each clause in example [2] is the same, whereas with example [1] the subjects are different:
    [1] The Bay Bridge . . ., so (that) the drive
    [2] He . . . , so *(that) he
    Hi, Casiopea, thank you for your interest. Can you look at these sentences quoted from NYTimes? The subjects are the same. Do they sound natural to you? I think "so that" as a result clause is rarely used in everyday life.

    - In each of these roles he has become archetypal, so that he is not just a common man, but an image of the common, the representative man at the time.

    - ... he learned stagecraft from the older actors around him, carefully absorbing everything they told him about acting, so that he was a veteran by the time ...

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    Re: so (that)

    Cool!

    He has become . . . , so that /consequently
    He absorded . . . , so that /consequently

    But,

    He realized . . . , so that <still awkward>

    Possibly, we're looking at the wrong cause in the Cause & Effect relationship? Consider,

    He realized the world could run out of key resources, *so that he was a harsh critic of the wastefulness of modern industrial society.

    What are your thoughts?

  10. #10
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    Re: so (that)

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    Cool!
    He has become . . . , so that /consequently
    He absorded . . . , so that /consequently
    But,
    He realized . . . , so that <still awkward>
    He realized . . . , so that /consequently ???

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