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Thread: GOING TO, ETC

  1. #41
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    Re: GOING TO, ETC

    Quote Originally Posted by jwschang
    (Waiting for people) can be quite vexing. (Participle phrase as Noun).

    I would think it's a Participle phrase serving as a Noun phrase. It's not a gerund because a gerund is the Continuous Participle used as a noun. In that sentence, while the phrase itself serves as a noun, the word "waiting" is used as a participle and not a noun WITHIN the phrase.
    I'm way lost.

    Waitingcan be quite vexing = It can be vexing.

    Form: participle
    Function: Subject

    Participles functioning as subject and objects are called gerunds.

    It's still not clear to me, though, how it can function as an adjective. I'm interested in learning this new function. Could you offer some insight. :D

    :D

  2. #42
    jwschang Guest

    Re: GOING TO, ETC

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    Quote Originally Posted by jwschang
    For very good reasons, the two classifications don't overlap:

    (A) Construction:
    1. Absolute phrase
    2. Preposition phrase
    3. Infinitive phrase
    4. Participle phrase (Continuous or Perfect Participle)

    (B) Usage:
    1. Noun phrase
    2. Adjective phrase
    3. Adverb phrase
    What's the good reason? :D Moreover, could you offer some examples illustrating the difference between a participle phrase functioning as an adjective, a noun, and an adverb? :D
    :D
    If we have (say) an Adjective phrase classified as a CONSTRUCTION and also as a USAGE, then when we mention an Adjective phrase, we won't know if we are talking about a construction type or a usage type. That's the reason (I believe and agree) that we don't call a phrase such as "A shrewd businessman" as an Adjective phrase (by construction) although its headed by the article/adjective "A". We call it an Absolute phrase, which consists of a noun or nouns and its modifiers (and the only modifiers of a noun are adjectives, because adverbs don't modify nouns).

    We don't find the same phrase-type classified under both Construction-type and Usage-type. So, construction types are Absolute/Preposition/Infinitive/Participle. Usage types are Noun/Adjective/Adverb.

    Of course, many writers don't follow this distinction; in fact, they don't even talk about two different classifications, construction vs usage. It is a distinction that I practise and I find it useful, logical and practical. The distinction also covers all possibilities, and I believe will withstand any test.

  3. #43
    jwschang Guest

    Re: GOING TO, ETC

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    Quote Originally Posted by jwschang
    (Waiting for people) can be quite vexing. (Participle phrase as Noun).

    I would think it's a Participle phrase serving as a Noun phrase. It's not a gerund because a gerund is the Continuous Participle used as a noun. In that sentence, while the phrase itself serves as a noun, the word "waiting" is used as a participle and not a noun WITHIN the phrase.
    I'm way lost.

    Waitingcan be quite vexing = It can be vexing. Yes, waiting IS a gerund in "Waiting can be vexing", used as noun/subject. WITHIN "Waiting for people", it's not a noun nor subject, its an action (participle, without a complete tense). Like, "I do cooking", "cooking" is a gerund/object of "do", or "Cooking relaxes me", where "cooking" is gerund/subject.

    Form: participle
    Function: Subject

    Participles functioning as subject and objects are called gerunds.

    It's still not clear to me, though, how it can function as an adjective. I'm interested in learning this new function. Could you offer some insight. :D

    :D

  4. #44
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    Re: GOING TO, ETC

    :D I think I get it. :D Thank you :D

    He, searching diligently, soon found the lost coin.

    Or copular,

    He was searching diligently. He soon found the lost coin.

    Getting back to the original topic, 'searching' functions as a predicate adjective in that sentence, right?

    :D

  5. #45
    jwschang Guest

    Re: GOING TO, ETC

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    Participles functioning as subject and objects are called gerunds. When the Continuous Participle functions as an adjective, it is NOT a gerund. (jws' response)
    It's still not clear to me, though, how it can function as an adjective. I'm interested in learning this new function. Could you offer some insight. :D
    :D
    Since nouns can be adjectives (English lessons), """theoretically""", a gerund can be an adjective, BUT in fact no, a gerund is not a participle functioing as a noun functioning as an adjective. A gerund is the Continuous Participle functioning as a NOUN and a NOUN ONLY.

    (A) So, when the Continuous Participle acts as an adjective, it is not a gerund. The Continuous Participle acts EITHER as an adjective OR as a gerund.

    (B) And a Gerund acts as a Noun, and no more. It does not act as an adjective: it's the Continuous Participle itself acting as an adjective.

    (C) It's NOT: Continuous Participle first becomes (=) a gerund, then the Gerund becomes (=) a noun, then the Noun becomes (=) an Adjective.
    It is Continuous Participle becomes (=) Adjective. For example,

    Running water (not gerund, simply Participle acting as Adjective)
    Falling snow (not gerund)
    Burning desire (not gerund)
    Cooked meat
    Broken window
    Pressed shirt

    See my previous response re"[Waiting] can be vexing" and "[Waiting for people] can be vexing".

    1. Waiting can be vexing. (Participle as Gerund and subject)
    2. Waiting for people can be vexing. (Participle as Participle/Verb)
    3. A waiting lover. (Participle as Adjective, NOT gerund as adjective)

  6. #46
    jwschang Guest

    Re: GOING TO, ETC

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    Quote Originally Posted by jwschang
    For very good reasons, the two classifications don't overlap:

    (A) Construction:
    1. Absolute phrase
    2. Preposition phrase
    3. Infinitive phrase
    4. Participle phrase (Continuous or Perfect Participle)

    (B) Usage:
    1. Noun phrase
    2. Adjective phrase
    3. Adverb phrase
    Moreover, could you offer some examples illustrating the difference between a participle phrase functioning as an adjective, a noun, and an adverb? :D
    :D
    (A) CONTINUOUS Participle phrases function as Noun phrases or Adjective phrases.
    (B) PERFECT Participle phrases function as Adjective phrases. I don't think it can function as a Noun phrase.
    (C) Neither CONTINUOUS nor PERFECT Participle phrases can function as an Adverb phrase. (Can't think of any such usage).

    1. [Taking advantage of people] isn't too ethical. (Noun phrase)
    2. [Picking his teeth], he stared at me. (Adjective phrase)
    3. [Asked for a reply], he dragged his feet. (Adjective phrase)
    4. Shoes [made in China] are good and cheap. (Adjective phrase)

  7. #47
    jwschang Guest

    Re: GOING TO, ETC

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    :D I think I get it. :D Thank you :D
    He, searching diligently, soon found the lost coin.
    Or copular,
    He was searching diligently. He soon found the lost coin.
    Getting back to the original topic, 'searching' functions as a predicate adjective in that sentence, right?
    :D
    In this case, it's not the same as "I'm going to type a letter". I'd say it's the participle as the main verb, and with "was" forms the past continuous.

  8. #48
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    Re: GOING TO, ETC

    Quote Originally Posted by jwschang
    WITHIN "Waiting for people", it's not a noun nor subject, its an action (participle, without a complete tense). Like, "I do cooking", "cooking" is a gerund/object of "do", or "Cooking relaxes me", where "cooking" is gerund/subject.
    So if 'waiting' isn't a noun, what is its function in "Waiting for people"?

    Moreover, why is it that Waiting's function changes when modified?

    1. Waiting can be vexing. (Form: gerund, Function: subject)
    2. Waiting for people can be vexing. (Form:_____, Function:____)

    I believe 1. and 2. are the same based on the fact that there are only two kinds of participles: adjective and noun (aka gerund). Waiting is either one or the other, and it's not an adjective. Or, is it? :D Help

  9. #49
    jwschang Guest

    Re: GOING TO, ETC

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    Quote Originally Posted by jwschang
    WITHIN "Waiting for people", it's not a noun nor subject, its an action (participle, without a complete tense). Like, "I do cooking", "cooking" is a gerund/object of "do", or "Cooking relaxes me", where "cooking" is gerund/subject.
    So if 'waiting' isn't a noun, what is its function in "Waiting for people"?

    Moreover, why is it that Waiting's function changes when modified?

    1. Waiting can be vexing. (Form: gerund, Function: subject)
    2. Waiting for people can be vexing. (Form:_____, Function:____)

    I believe 1. and 2. are the same based on the fact that there are only two kinds of participles: adjective and noun (aka gerund). Waiting is either one or the other, and it's not an adjective. Or, is it? :D Help
    In sentence 2, "waiting" remains a verb (not supported by auxiliary, therefore no tense). It doesn't HAVE to be either a gerund or adjective. It remains functioning as a verb. The phrase "Waiting for people" is a Noun phrase (in that particular sentence), with "waiting" functioning as a verb/participle in the phrase.

    It acts as an adjective when placed before (not necessarily immediately before) a noun: Running cold water. But, in "waiting FOR people", the preposition relates the verb "waiting" to the noun "people".

  10. #50
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    Re: GOING TO, ETC

    Quote Originally Posted by jwschang
    2. Waiting for people can be vexing.

    It remains functioning as a verb. The phrase "Waiting for people" is a Noun phrase (in that particular sentence), with "waiting" functioning as a verb/participle in the phrase.
    Could you show me the phrase structure? For example, NP = VP + NP.

    :D

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