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Thread: GOING TO, ETC

  1. #11
    RonBee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwschang
    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    Also, the time of the future is important as for the very near future, then would they be adjectives or verbs? (Putting on my coat- I'm going to meet my father at the station. Is this an intention pure and simple?)
    What about the differences in the following:

    1. Putting on my coat, I'm going to meet my father.
    2. Putting on my coat, I shall meet my father.
    3. Putting on my coat, I shall go to meet my father.
    4. Putting on my coat, I am proceeding to meet my father.

    I think (1) and (2) are closer in meaning. The futurity conveyed in (3) is not really the message in (1). As you pointed out, the imminence of the action should be a key factor as to the tense. The "meeting" is more imminent in both (1) and (2) compared to (3).
    In my humble opinion, only the first sentence makes sense. In the first sentence, Putting on my coat is an adverbial phrase modifying the rest of the sentence. In the other sentences, it doesn't modify anything, having no genuine connection to the rest of the sentence. The first sentence could be restated as I am putting on my coat, and then I am heading out the door to meet my father. In the other sentences you are talking about two separate actions that are totally unconnected in every way.

    :)

  2. #12
    Tdol is online now Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    2&3 could be fine in a certain context:

    Husband- I want you to stay here and cook and wait on me hand and foot.

    Wife (putting on coat)- I shall go and meet my divorce lawyer.

  3. #13
    jwschang Guest

    Re: GOING TO, ETC

    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    Quote Originally Posted by jwschang
    Except that adverb phrases are supposed to be headed only by a preposition or infinitive (I wonder why? and who laid this down!!) and not a participle!!
    Unless I'm being stupid here, I don't get the point about adverb phrases:
    I'm leaving tomorrow morning.
    Isn't that an adverb phrase?
    There are books (such as Basic English Review published by South Western in the U.S.) which classify adverb phrases as headed by a preposition or an infinitive. In fact, I don't agree with that as there are other constructions of adverb phrases.

    In your example, "tomorrow morning" is an adverb phrase without doubt.
    It is made up of the noun "morning" and its modifier "tomorrow", which is a very common construction of a phrase. (Noun + modifiers) serve as noun phrases, adjective phrases and adverb phrases.

    (Noun + modifiers) as phrase:
    1. Long rainy days are good for sleeping. (Noun phrase)
    2.A careful person, she spends wisely. (adjective phrase, not appositive)
    3. I am leaving tomorrow morning. (adverb phrase)

    I am leaving in the morning. (adverb phrase headed by preposition)

    Cas said that in "I am going to eat", "going to eat" is not a predicate adjective (which my first post stated) She's right, so I corrected that by saying it's a predicate adverb phrase.

  4. #14
    jwschang Guest

    Re: GOING TO, ETC

    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    Quote Originally Posted by jwschang
    Except that adverb phrases are supposed to be headed only by a preposition or infinitive (I wonder why? and who laid this down!!) and not a participle!!
    Unless I'm being stupid here, I don't get the point about adverb phrases:
    I'm leaving tomorrow morning.
    Isn't that an adverb phrase?
    There are books (such as Basic English Review published by South Western in the U.S.) which classify adverb phrases as headed by a preposition or an infinitive. In fact, I don't agree with that as there are other constructions of adverb phrases.

    In your example, "tomorrow morning" is an adverb phrase without doubt.
    It is made up of the noun "morning" and its modifier "tomorrow", which is a very common construction of a phrase. (Noun + modifiers) serve as noun phrases, adjective phrases and adverb phrases.

    (Noun + modifiers) as phrase:
    1. Long rainy days are good for sleeping. (Noun phrase)
    2.A careful person, she spends wisely. (adjective phrase, not appositive)
    3. I am leaving tomorrow morning. (adverb phrase)

    I am leaving in the morning. (adverb phrase headed by preposition)

    Cas said that in "I am going to eat", "going to eat" is not a predicate adjective (which my first post stated) She's right, so I corrected that by saying it's a predicate adverb phrase.

  5. #15
    jwschang Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by RonBee
    Quote Originally Posted by jwschang
    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    Also, the time of the future is important as for the very near future, then would they be adjectives or verbs? (Putting on my coat- I'm going to meet my father at the station. Is this an intention pure and simple?)
    What about the differences in the following:

    1. Putting on my coat, I'm going to meet my father.
    2. Putting on my coat, I shall meet my father.
    3. Putting on my coat, I shall go to meet my father.
    4. Putting on my coat, I am proceeding to meet my father.

    I think (1) and (2) are closer in meaning. The futurity conveyed in (3) is not really the message in (1). As you pointed out, the imminence of the action should be a key factor as to the tense. The "meeting" is more imminent in both (1) and (2) compared to (3).
    In my humble opinion, only the first sentence makes sense. In the first sentence, Putting on my coat is an adverbial phrase modifying the rest of the sentence. In the other sentences, it doesn't modify anything, having no genuine connection to the rest of the sentence. The first sentence could be restated as I am putting on my coat, and then I am heading out the door to meet my father. In the other sentences you are talking about two separate actions that are totally unconnected in every way.
    :)
    Hi Ron, thanks for the message about verses. Didn't reply as I was off this site most of the time. Trying to complete my book by yearend. In the midst of that, the usage of "going to" struck me as something not quite belonging as a continuous tense.

    I would say that in all the above examples, the phrase is an adjective phrase modifying the pronoun "I". As in: Walking up the street, he saw a pretty girl. The phrase modifies "he". You are right that except for the first sentence, the phrase in the other examples doesn't quite fit.

    On my original subject of "going to", what about this:
    1. I am meeting him. (present continuous)
    2. I am going to meet him. (simple present or present continuous?)
    3. I shall be meeting him. (future continuous)
    4. I shall be going to meet him. (future continuous)

    It looks to me that "going" is not the same between (2) and (4). In (2), it is not the main verb, just expressing futurity or intention. In (4), it is the main verb, or otherwise we should use (3) to say the same thing. In (4), it actually means "going" as an action, like he's not coming so Im going (to meet him).

    "Going" acting as an auxiliary seems applicable only in the simple present and simple past: I am going to eat; I was going to eat. "I shall be going to eat" is totally redundant because of "I shall be eating", UNLESS "going" means the action of movement, and as such (4) is the future continuous. :wink:

  6. #16
    jwschang Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    At elemtary level, I would teach the simple form as the one to use. Later on, we can deal with the niceties. The progressive here carries a subtle shade of meaning that is more appropriate to a more advanced learner.
    By "simple form", do you mean "going" as expressing the continuous tense? I would stick to this myself, for teaching anyone. My thoughts that it could be treated as an auxiliary are just thoughts, for discussion. It is an impossibility to try to even introduce this idea, in practical terms. :wink:

  7. #17
    Tdol is online now Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    I was referring to forms like 'hoping'.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwschang
    Quote Originally Posted by RonBee
    Quote Originally Posted by jwschang
    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    Also, the time of the future is important as for the very near future, then would they be adjectives or verbs? (Putting on my coat- I'm going to meet my father at the station. Is this an intention pure and simple?)
    What about the differences in the following:

    1. Putting on my coat, I'm going to meet my father.
    2. Putting on my coat, I shall meet my father.
    3. Putting on my coat, I shall go to meet my father.
    4. Putting on my coat, I am proceeding to meet my father.

    I think (1) and (2) are closer in meaning. The futurity conveyed in (3) is not really the message in (1). As you pointed out, the imminence of the action should be a key factor as to the tense. The "meeting" is more imminent in both (1) and (2) compared to (3).
    In my humble opinion, only the first sentence makes sense. In the first sentence, Putting on my coat is an adverbial phrase modifying the rest of the sentence. In the other sentences, it doesn't modify anything, having no genuine connection to the rest of the sentence. The first sentence could be restated as I am putting on my coat, and then I am heading out the door to meet my father. In the other sentences you are talking about two separate actions that are totally unconnected in every way.
    :)
    Hi Ron, thanks for the message about verses. Didn't reply as I was off this site most of the time. Trying to complete my book by yearend. In the midst of that, the usage of "going to" struck me as something not quite belonging as a continuous tense.

    I would say that in all the above examples, the phrase is an adjective phrase modifying the pronoun "I". As in: Walking up the street, he saw a pretty girl. The phrase modifies "he". You are right that except for the first sentence, the phrase in the other examples doesn't quite fit.

    On my original subject of "going to", what about this:
    1. I am meeting him. (present continuous)
    2. I am going to meet him. (simple present or present continuous?)
    3. I shall be meeting him. (future continuous)
    4. I shall be going to meet him. (future continuous)

    It looks to me that "going" is not the same between (2) and (4). In (2), it is not the main verb, just expressing futurity or intention. In (4), it is the main verb, or otherwise we should use (3) to say the same thing. In (4), it actually means "going" as an action, like he's not coming so Im going (to meet him).

    "Going" acting as an auxiliary seems applicable only in the simple present and simple past: I am going to eat; I was going to eat. "I shall be going to eat" is totally redundant because of "I shall be eating", UNLESS "going" means the action of movement, and as such (4) is the future continuous. :wink:
    I agree with your analysis. I do think that the first sentence ("I am meeting him") has a sense of incompleteness. More likely is something like, "I am meeting him today." (You can say I am running now or I am walking now, but you can't say I am meeting now.)

    :)

  9. #19
    jwschang Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by RonBee
    I agree with your analysis. I do think that the first sentence ("I am meeting him") has a sense of incompleteness. More likely is something like, "I am meeting him today." (You can say I am running now or I am walking now, but you can't say I am meeting now.)
    :)
    Thanks everybody for your input. In case anyone missed a point, I am talking specifically only about whether "going" (when its means intention or futurity) should not be deemed as constituting the continuous tense. I'm not suggesting that other participles, such as "typing", "meeting", etc should also be deemed as such. "Going to" is the unique case that I wanted to raise. :wink:

  10. #20
    Tdol is online now Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    It is an interesting question and you sparked up quite a debate. I tend towards the progressive form view, though.

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