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Thread: grammar

  1. #1
    Anonymous Guest

    Default grammar

    I have come across the following multiple choices and feel confused. I try to analyze them. I picked the two that are confusing the other two choices are abosolute wrong.

    1. After_______for the job, you will be required to take a language test.
    a. being interviewed b. interviewed
    The key is a. But I think both are correct. 'being interviewed' is participle while 'interviewed' is an elliptical sentence. There is another sentence ' Michael used to look hurt and surprised when scolded. Here 'when scolded' is the same as 'after interviewed'. Am I right?

    2. _________ in an atmosphere of simple living was what her parents wished for.
    a. The girl's being educated b. The girl educated
    The key is a. But I think b is also correct. 'A' means her parents wished for an stmosphere of simple living while 'b' means her parents wished for a girl who is educated. Am I right?

    3. _________ that man has learned much from the behavior of animals is hardly new.
    a. That b. What
    The key is 'a' while I think 'b' is also correct. 'a' is a subject clause. And the sentence means it is a fact that man has learned much from the behavior of animals. 'b' means The fact that man has learned much form the behavior of animals was known long before or is nothing new. Am I right?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: grammar

    1. After_______for the job, you will be required to take a language test.
    a. being interviewed b. interviewed
    The key is a. But I think both are correct. 'being interviewed' is participle while 'interviewed' is an elliptical sentence. There is another sentence ' Michael used to look hurt and surprised when scolded. Here 'when scolded' is the same as 'after interviewed'. Am I right?
    You can't use interviewed by itself there. That much is certain. That form is not used. (I will wait for Cas or Tdol to explain why.) You can say:
    • After you have been interviewed for the job, you will be required to take a language test.


    2. _________ in an atmosphere of simple living was what her parents wished for.
    a. The girl's being educated b. The girl educated
    The key is a. But I think b is also correct. 'A' means her parents wished for an stmosphere of simple living while 'b' means her parents wished for a girl who is educated. Am I right?
    I don't think either choice is natural, but b is definitely not correct. (Sorry.) If you rearrange the sentence, you can use b, thus:
    • Her parents wanted the girl educated in an atmosphere of simple living.


    3. _________ that man has learned much from the behavior of animals is hardly new.
    a. That b. What
    The key is 'a' while I think 'b' is also correct. 'a' is a subject clause. And the sentence means it is a fact that man has learned much from the behavior of animals. 'b' means The fact that man has learned much form the behavior of animals was known long before or is nothing new. Am I right?
    What the sentence means is that it is not new (not news) that the man has learned much from the behavior of animals. As it is worded in your example, only a ("That") makes sense.

    Your explanation is in error. The phrase that man refers to a specific man and not to man in general.

    :)

  3. #3
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Default Re: grammar

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous
    I have come across the following multiple choices and feel confused. I try to analyze them. I picked the two that are confusing the other two choices are abosolute wrong.

    1. After_______for the job, you will be required to take a language test.
    a. being interviewed b. interviewed
    The key is a. But I think both are correct. 'being interviewed' is participle while 'interviewed' is an elliptical sentence. There is another sentence ' Michael used to look hurt and surprised when scolded. Here 'when scolded' is the same as 'after interviewed'. Am I right?
    B is wrong because it does not give the passive sense required. 'When scolded' is different because it refers to a pattern and not a single event.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous
    2. _________ in an atmosphere of simple living was what her parents wished for.
    a. The girl's being educated b. The girl educated
    The key is a. But I think b is also correct. 'A' means her parents wished for an stmosphere of simple living while 'b' means her parents wished for a girl who is educated. Am I right?
    Not really- they wished for her to be educated- we are talking about the process rather than the end product, which your suggestion refers to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous
    3. _________ that man has learned much from the behavior of animals is hardly new.
    a. That b. What
    The key is 'a' while I think 'b' is also correct. 'a' is a subject clause. And the sentence means it is a fact that man has learned much from the behavior of animals. 'b' means The fact that man has learned much form the behavior of animals was known long before or is nothing new. Am I right?
    Hmm- I'm not sure about this. 'What that man...' would refer to a single man and does not make sense with the rest of the sentence. The answer A is also wrong, iMO, because 'That that man' doesn't work. 'That man (meaning humankind) has learned....' works. I think there may be a misprint here.

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    Default Re: grammar

    "That that man has learned much from the behavior of animals is hardly new" can only be referring to one particular man. Otherwise, the sentence is complete without the first that. Right? :)

    (We were posting at the same time.)

    :)

    [Edited to fix atrocious grammar.]

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: grammar

    I try to analyze them.
    Correct:
    • I tried to analyze them.


    However, you don't need to use tried there. After all, you did analyze them.

    :)

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    Default Re: grammar

    1a. After being interviewed for the job, you will be required to take a language test.

    The focus here is on the word 'After'.

    ==> After this happens. Note that 'happens' is in the present tense, whereas 'interviewed' is not, hence the present participle 'being' is added.

    ==> When interviewed means, at the time of the interview process. Time is unspecified here, so no added tense marker is required.

    2. The girl's being educated in an atmosphere of simple living was what her parents wished for.

    ==> being educated is a noun phrase.

    Simplified: Being educated was her parents wish. (SVO)

    ==> The girl educated is a noun phrase + verb phrase.

    Simplified: The girl educated was her parents wish. (*SVVO)
    *ungrammatical because there are two verb phrases: educated and was.


    3a. That that man has learned much from the behavior of animals is hardly new. (OK)

    ==> The fact that that man has....

    Simplified: The fact [that he has learned a great deal from animals] is hardly new knowledge.

    The bit in square brackets [..] refers to "The fact/That".

    3b. What that man has learned much from the behavior of animals is hardly new. (Not OK)

    The problem here is with 'what' and 'much'.

    ==> He has learned what from animals?
    ==> He has learned this from animals.
    ==> what = this ('what' replaces 'this')
    ==> What he has learned from animals.... (OK)

    ==> He has learned what from the animals?
    ==> He has learned much from the animals.
    ==> What he has learned from the animals.... (OK)

    :D

  8. #8
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    Default Re: grammar

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea
    1a. After being interviewed for the job, you will be required to take a language test.

    The focus here is on the word 'After'.

    ==> After this happens. Note that 'happens' is in the present tense, whereas 'interviewed' is not, hence the present participle 'being' is added.

    ==> When interviewed means, at the time of the interview process. Time is unspecified here, so no added tense marker is required.
    Hm. Tense marker. I'm going to have to remember that. :)

    I do know that after is an adverb. :)

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    Default Re: grammar

    Quote Originally Posted by tdol
    3. _________ that man has learned much from the behavior of animals is hardly new.
    a. That b. What

    Hmm- I'm not sure about this. 'What that man...' would refer to a single man and does not make sense with the rest of the sentence. The answer A is also wrong, iMO, because 'That that man' doesn't work. 'That man (meaning humankind) has learned....' works. I think there may be a misprint here.
    It's odd, isn't it? But it's common in academic writing.

    That [pause] that man... / That [pause] John...
    ==> The fact that [pause] that man... / The fact that [pause] John...
    ==> (The fact) that [pause] that man... / (The fact) that [pause] John...

    What that man has learned from the behavior of animals is hardly new.
    (I deleted 'must' so as to make the sentence grammatical)

    Simple:
    He has learned much from animals and what he learned is hardly new.

    :D

  10. #10
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    'That that' is OK in many contexts, especially spokjen, buyt it doesn't seem to work here IMO.

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