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Thread: grammar

  1. #21
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    Default Re: grammar

    Quote Originally Posted by jiang
    I am terribly sorry that it should be Either of the two books holds the opinion..... Is it correct to choose 'either' then?
    Sorry. You're right about the verb holds. My apologies.

    Neither holds = not either ==> None; Not one (better choice)
    Either holds = either ==> One; Not two

    Hope that helps.

    Sorry about my previous post. You were kind in letting me know. Thank you.

    :D

  2. #22
    jiang is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: confirmation

    Quote Originally Posted by RonBee
    Quote Originally Posted by jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by RonBee
    You are right, Mike. It should be: "Neither of the shrubs grows well in this soil."

    Dear RonBee,

    I feel uneasy to have disturbed you so much. So either is still incorrect?
    If it is could you please explain the difference between my sentence and the dictionary example?
    Let's focus on meaning. If I say Neither book A nor book B say a certain thing then what I say applies to both. In other words, book A doesn't say it and book B doesn't say it. What if I say either book says it? Does it mean book A says it? No, it doesn't. Does it mean book B says it? No, it doesn't. I can't make either apply to one book or the other and certainly not both. So I can't use either.

    What about the other example? What if I say "Neither of those bushes can grow in that soil"? What I said applies to both of them. Bush A can not grow in that soil, and bush B can not grow in that soil. What if I say "Either of those bushes can grow in that soil"? It's just the opposite. Bush A can grow in that soil, and bush B can grow in that soil.

    Does that help?

    :)
    :?

    Thank you so much for your patience in explaining the difference to me. It's very clear. But I don't understand why I say Bush A can grow , and bush B can grow but I can't say book A says it and book B says it?
    Thanks!

    Jiang

  3. #23
    MikeNewYork's Avatar
    MikeNewYork is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: confirmation

    Quote Originally Posted by RonBee
    Quote Originally Posted by jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by RonBee
    You are right, Mike. It should be: "Neither of the shrubs grows well in this soil."

    Dear RonBee,

    I feel uneasy to have disturbed you so much. So either is still incorrect?
    If it is could you please explain the difference between my sentence and the dictionary example?
    Let's focus on meaning. If I say Neither book A nor book B say a certain thing then what I say applies to both. In other words, book A doesn't say it and book B doesn't say it. What if I say either book says it? Does it mean book A says it? No, it doesn't. Does it mean book B says it? No, it doesn't. I can't make either apply to one book or the other and certainly not both. So I can't use either.

    What about the other example? What if I say "Neither of those bushes can grow in that soil"? What I said applies to both of them. Bush A can not grow in that soil, and bush B can not grow in that soil. What if I say "Either of those bushes can grow in that soil"? It's just the opposite. Bush A can grow in that soil, and bush B can grow in that soil.

    Does that help?

    :)
    It helped me! That was an excellent explanation. :)

  4. #24
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    Default Re: grammar

    Quote Originally Posted by jiang
    Random House Webster's Dictionary of American English ( P438) :

    Either of the shrubs grows well in this soil.

    That's why I don't understand your explanation. Here either of is followed by pl noun.
    The example sentence expresses potential:

    Either of the shrubs has the potential to grow well in this soil. However, neither of the two shrubs is growing in this soil at the moment.

    2a. Either of the two books holds the opinion that the danger of nuclear war is increasing.

    We can't get a potential meaning here; a book either holds an opinion or it doesn't. The question is, in "Either of the two books holds the opinion" which one holds the opinion? If both, then use the word 'Both'; if none, then use the word 'Neither'.

    If we added c., there'd be a problem.

    a. Either b. Neither c. Both

    But since we don't have choice c., b. is the correct choice.

    2b. Neither of the two books holds the opinion that the danger of nuclear war is increasing.

    :D

  5. #25
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    Default Re: confirmation

    Quote Originally Posted by jiang
    Thank you so much for your patience in explaining the difference to me. It's very clear. But I don't understand why I say Bush A can grow , and bush B can grow but I can't say book A says it and book B says it? Thanks!
    You're welcome :D

  6. #26
    RonBee's Avatar
    RonBee is offline Moderator
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    Default Re: confirmation

    Quote Originally Posted by jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by RonBee
    Quote Originally Posted by jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by RonBee
    You are right, Mike. It should be: "Neither of the shrubs grows well in this soil."

    Dear RonBee,

    I feel uneasy to have disturbed you so much. So either is still incorrect?
    If it is could you please explain the difference between my sentence and the dictionary example?
    Let's focus on meaning. If I say Neither book A nor book B say a certain thing then what I say applies to both. In other words, book A doesn't say it and book B doesn't say it. What if I say either book says it? Does it mean book A says it? No, it doesn't. Does it mean book B says it? No, it doesn't. I can't make either apply to one book or the other and certainly not both. So I can't use either.

    What about the other example? What if I say "Neither of those bushes can grow in that soil"? What I said applies to both of them. Bush A can not grow in that soil, and bush B can not grow in that soil. What if I say "Either of those bushes can grow in that soil"? It's just the opposite. Bush A can grow in that soil, and bush B can grow in that soil.

    Does that help?

    :)
    :?

    Thank you so much for your patience in explaining the difference to me. It's very clear. But I don't understand why I say Bush A can grow , and bush B can grow but I can't say book A says it and book B says it?
    Thanks!

    Jiang
    You can say that, but that would mean that both of them say it as opposed to saying that neither of them says it. (The true opposite of neither is both.)

    I think the confusion is caused by the verbs that are used. A book either says something or it doesn't. Also, you can't compare books to bushes. You can't really say that either one book say something or another book says it, because that doesn't make sense. You are admitting that you don't really know. If you do know which book says what you can't say it's either one. You have to say which one. If you know which book says what you have to say book A says this or book B says that. You can't use either. If you know for a fact what is not in book A and what is not in book B then you can use neither.

    In the case of the bushes you are talking about potential. If you say "Either bush will grow in this soil" you mean that either bush can grow in that soil. If you say "Neither bush can grow in this soil" you mean that neither bush can grow in that soil. Thus, in that case, either and neither mean two opposite things.

    Was I successful?

    :)

  7. #27
    jiang is offline Key Member
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    Default Re: confirmation

    :D
    Dear RonBee,

    Now I understand perfectly. Thank you so much!

    Jiang


    Quote Originally Posted by RonBee
    Quote Originally Posted by jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by RonBee
    Quote Originally Posted by jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by RonBee
    You are right, Mike. It should be: "Neither of the shrubs grows well in this soil."

    Dear RonBee,

    I feel uneasy to have disturbed you so much. So either is still incorrect?
    If it is could you please explain the difference between my sentence and the dictionary example?
    Let's focus on meaning. If I say Neither book A nor book B say a certain thing then what I say applies to both. In other words, book A doesn't say it and book B doesn't say it. What if I say either book says it? Does it mean book A says it? No, it doesn't. Does it mean book B says it? No, it doesn't. I can't make either apply to one book or the other and certainly not both. So I can't use either.

    What about the other example? What if I say "Neither of those bushes can grow in that soil"? What I said applies to both of them. Bush A can not grow in that soil, and bush B can not grow in that soil. What if I say "Either of those bushes can grow in that soil"? It's just the opposite. Bush A can grow in that soil, and bush B can grow in that soil.

    Does that help?

    :)
    :?

    Thank you so much for your patience in explaining the difference to me. It's very clear. But I don't understand why I say Bush A can grow , and bush B can grow but I can't say book A says it and book B says it?
    Thanks!

    Jiang
    You can say that, but that would mean that both of them say it as opposed to saying that neither of them says it. (The true opposite of neither is both.)

    I think the confusion is caused by the verbs that are used. A book either says something or it doesn't. Also, you can't compare books to bushes. You can't really say that either one book say something or another book says it, because that doesn't make sense. You are admitting that you don't really know. If you do know which book says what you can't say it's either one. You have to say which one. If you know which book says what you have to say book A says this or book B says that. You can't use either. If you know for a fact what is not in book A and what is not in book B then you can use neither.

    In the case of the bushes you are talking about potential. If you say "Either bush will grow in this soil" you mean that either bush can grow in that soil. If you say "Neither bush can grow in this soil" you mean that neither bush can grow in that soil. Thus, in that case, either and neither mean two opposite things.

    Was I successful?

    :)

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