Noun that-clause

[Osbri]

Oh, I didn't know that and I don't understand that rule. Do you?

 

[Matthew Wai]

Yes, I do.

 

[Osbri]

I just think that if a sentence is grammatical and understandable, it can be said or it should be correct but I think some people won't understand that.

 

[Matthew Wai]

A learner will be considered a non-native if s/he uses grammatical but unnatural sentences. Having said that, I don't mind that people know I am a non-native.

 

[Osbri]

I don't understand why some people would think that but you're right because there are some people who think others aren't native, when they say a grammatically unnatural sentence or an unnaturally grammatical sentence. I don't understand how a grammatical sentence can be unnatural. I think people don't have to be native to say things right but I think people should be understood. I don't know if people are going to think whether I'm native or not because I learned two languages around the same time when I was younger. I still think "I told that to you" is correct and I heard people say "I said that... to you" is correct. Is it?

 

[MikeNewYork]

I think it is time to close this thread. We are getting nowhere fast.

 

[Tarheel]

I agree with Matthew. Nobody is going to think less of you because you are not a native speaker.

Matthew's accomplishment is an impressive one. (I would be happy if I was as good at Spanish as he is at English.)

 

[Osbri]

Which sentence are you talking about?

I told 'that I am going to stay home' to him is wrong.

I told that to you before.is not natural,

Are you saying that the unnatural sentence is not wrong but just unnatural?

 

[emsr2d2]

If we say it's unnatural, then that's what it is. If it's wrong, we say it's wrong.

 

[Osbri]

Then you, Mike, and Piscean might be right but I still think both are grammatically correct.

 

[MikeNewYork]

If you like it, feel free to use it.

 

[Matthew Wai]

A noun-clause contains a finite verb, so it cannot be used entirely as a noun.
Can the above explain the following:

I told 'that I am going to stay home' to him is wrong.

 

[Osbri]

If you like it, feel free to use it.

I probably will to get laughed at. I'm lying but I was just trying to see if some people in this forum will think this structure is correct.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]

A noun-clause contains a finite verb, so it cannot be used entirely as a noun.

Isn't 'am' the finite verb?
[/FONT]

 

[Matthew Wai]

I consider 'am' an auxiliary verb in 'am going', the finite verb of the clause.

 

[Osbri]

I think you are right. Are you thinking 'go' or 'stay' is the finite verb? I can just say "I told 'that I will stay home' to him."

 

[Tarheel]

Try:

I told him that I will stay home.

 

[Osbri]

I never seen that structure. I'm lying and I showed that structure because I thought it would probably help people know if the that-clause is a noun clause but I think it won't help some. I think if I wrote "I said 'that I am going to stay home' to him", it will sound better or more natural to some people.

 

[MikeNewYork]

I doubt you will very many.

 

[Osbri]

very many

Is that a joke because you think that is unnatural?

That doesn't really help us help you.

You might be right.

Well, it's less unnatural than I told 'that I am going to stay home' to him, ​but where does that get us? Trying to analyse unnatural sentences is not going to help many people learn natural patterns.

I just thought that structure will help people see if the that-clause is a noun clause like when people read "I told that secret to you", you can change "I told that secret to you" to "I told you that secret" and I thought that if you can see "that secret" is a noun, you will see if a that-clause is a noun. I think people can learn natural and unnatural structure and still know which is natural and which is not.

 

[Osbri]

And language isn't natural because it's made by humans.