[Grammar] If I asked her,she wouldn't have told me.

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andi harper

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Hi. Could someone help me understand this usage? I hear native speakers use this conditional sentence construction a lot-the condition is in the PAST SIMPLE and the result uses WOULD HAVE , for example :
I would have nailed that audition, if you didn't make me miss it.(he did make her miss it).
I would have been disappointed, if you didn't come.(when the person is already there).
If I asked her, (when she was leaving) she wouldn't have told me( where she was going).
I mean, why isn't the condition in Past Perfect?
Please, help me out. With gratitude.
 

kilroy65

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The sentences are mixed conditionals which express a hypothetical past result of a present action. If you google "mixed conditionals", you'll find quite a few examples. :)
 

kilroy65

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But the OP's examples are the other way round.:-?
 
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andi harper

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Hi, Piscean. Thanks so much. At least someone else considers it wrong too. But does this mean that native speakers use it incorrectly? Could this just be for simplification ? And I just thought of another example I heard on a tv show.
If I told you guys (he's referring to the past time when they didn't know his secret but they do now), you would have laughed at me.
Are you a native speaker?
 

emsr2d2

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In BrE, the carefully constructed, grammatically correct verions of what you heard on the TV show would be "If I had told you, you would have laughed at me" or "Had I told you, you would have laughed at me".
If the sentence started with "If I told you" it would end with "you would laugh at me".

People on TV shows don't always speak grammatically, especially if it's not a scripted programme.

Was your question "Are you a native speaker?" directed at Piscean? If so, you can find out the native language of every user of this forum by clicking on "Member Info" under their username.
 

andi harper

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https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/members/261573-emsr2d2Hello, emsr2d2. Many thanks. I really appreciate your input. I'd really like to know your opinion on this example sentence that I came across on one of the websites explaining Mixed conditionals.
I would have been happy to help you if I wasn't in the middle of another meeting.
Does this mean that the meeting is still in progress or is going to happen in a few minutes? If so, could the first part be like this: I would be happy to help you if I wasn't in the middle of another meeting.

 

Matthew Wai

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The sentences are mixed conditionals which express a hypothetical past result of a present action.
Yesterday I used such a sentence on another forum.
'If the OP intended to back up the operating system, s/he would have said so.'
Is it natural?
 

emsr2d2

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Hello, emsr2d2. Many thanks. I really appreciate your input. I'd really like to know your opinion on this example sentence that I came across on one of the websites explaining Mixed conditionals.
I would have been happy to help you if I wasn't in the middle of another meeting.
Does this mean that the meeting is still in progress or is going to happen in a few minutes? If so, could the first part be like this: I would be happy to help you if I wasn't in the middle of another meeting.


If the meeting were still happening, I would say "I would be happy to help you if I weren't in the middle of a meeting".
If the meeting were over, I would say "I would have been happy to help you if I hadn't been in the middle of a meeting".
 

Roman55

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Yesterday I used such a sentence on another forum.
'If the OP intended to back up the operating system, s/he would have said so.'
Is it natural?

I would say, 'If the OP had intended…'

I might say, 'If the OP intended to back up the operating system, why didn't s/he say so?'
 

GoesStation

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If I told you guys (he's referring to the past time when they didn't know his secret but they do now), you would have laughed at me.

It could be hard to distinguish if I'd told you from if I told you.
 

andi harper

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Hi,emsr2d2. Thanks again. I just thought about what you said and the problem is I heard those examples that I posted originally all on different shows and still keep constantly hearing this conditional sentence structure. They can't be all wrong? What could be the deal with this usage?

https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/members/261573-emsr2d2
 

andi harper

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It could be hard to distinguish if I'd told you from if I told you.
Hello, GoesStation.
I see your point. I thought so too at first but the proof became apparent later with these sentences:
I would have nailed that audition, if you didn't make me miss it.
I would have been disappointed, if you didn't come.
If you didn't give him a heads-up, we could have brought him in.
If i knew you were gonna come, I would have cleaned up.
 

Rover_KE

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Hi,emsr2d2. I just thought about what you said and the problem is I heard those examples that I posted originally all on different shows and still keep constantly hearing this conditional sentence structure. They can't be all wrong? What could be the deal with this usage?
The deal is that conditionals are not normally taught in British (or American?) schools. Native English-speakers pick up sentence structures from their families, peers, teachers, books, TV shows, films, social media outlets etc. As long as they are understood in daily conversation, they don't care that their choice of tenses may not pass a rigidly-marked grammar exam.

I expect you could say the same about your own native language.
 

Matthew Wai

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I would say, 'If the OP had intended…'
Is 'had' obligatory or just your preference?
When I wrote 'If the OP intended ...', I meant his/her intention at that moment rather than at an earlier time.
 

Roman55

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At what moment? And why say, 's/he would have said so'? Surely whatever 's/he would have said' would have been said after the intention, or lack of it.

In post #8, emsr2d2 explains the grammatically correct way of forming this sort of sentence in BrE.

That's the way I do it, and that's why I told you that I would have used, 'had intended'.
 

andi harper

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So, I guess the only explanation of this use could be to simplify things?
 

Raymott

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No, a more likely explanation is that those who use incorrect grammar don't know the correct grammar. Or that this is a local dialect. Or that the speaker simply doesn't care about grammar or being understood.
 
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