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  1. #11
    dihen is offline Member
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    Re: participial phrases -- adverbs or adjectives?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    For me, "grunting and straining" describes the subject. That would make it adjectival.
    Anyway, for me, it modifies the verb.

  2. #12
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    Re: participial phrases -- adverbs or adjectives?

    How about:


    Sitting in his car, John lit a cigarette.

  3. #13
    dihen is offline Member
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    Re: participial phrases -- adverbs or adjectives?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    How about:
    Sitting in his car, John lit a cigarette.
    -> When/While (he was) sitting in his car, John lit a cigarette.

  4. #14
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    Re: participial phrases -- adverbs or adjectives?

    John, who was sitting in his car, lit a cigarette.

  5. #15
    dihen is offline Member
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    Re: participial phrases -- adverbs or adjectives?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    John, who was sitting in his car, lit a cigarette.
    For me the relative clause and the participial phrase are very different structures.
    `
    example:
    [AdjP [NP John], [who was sitting in his car]], lit...
    ([PP ( empty preposition) [NP sitting in his car]]Adv {trace}), [NP John] [AdvP [VP lit...] [Adv {trace}] ]...
    Last edited by dihen; 26-Sep-2006 at 19:28.

  6. #16
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    Re: participial phrases -- adverbs or adjectives?

    Of course they are different structures.

    You were the one, however, who posted that adjectival participial phrases could be stated as relative clauses with no change in meaning. I simply provided you an example.

  7. #17
    dihen is offline Member
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    Re: participial phrases -- adverbs or adjectives?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    Of course they are different structures.
    You were the one, however, who posted that adjectival participial phrases could be stated as relative clauses with no change in meaning. I simply provided you an example.
    No, I am the one who posted that non-restrictive adjectival participial phrases can often be stated as adverbial phrases or clauses with no change in meaning.
    `
    Quote Originally Posted by dihen
    "Grunting and straining, Jean Valijean lifted the huge wagon off the peasant who had been pinned beneath it."
    ("While?/In? grunting and straining, Jean Valijean lifted the..."; similar meaning but sounds awkward)
    `
    "Having finished the artwork on the globe for mission prayer band, Todd decided to show it to Paster Donnell."
    ("After having finished the...", similar meaning but sounds awkward?)
    I should have written them like this instead.:
    `
    ("In the state of grunting and straining, Jean Valijean lifted the..."; most closely resembles the original meaning)
    and
    "After having finished the..., Todd decided to..."; most closely resembles the original meaning
    Last edited by dihen; 27-Sep-2006 at 06:13.

  8. #18
    dihen is offline Member
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    Re: participial phrases -- adverbs or adjectives?

    Quote Originally Posted by dihen View Post
    For that one, maybe I should have written it like this.
    `
    "In the manner of grunting and straining, Jean Valijean lifted the..."; most closely resembles the original meaning
    `
    Do you think it describes the manner of how he lifted it?

  9. #19
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    Re: participial phrases -- adverbs or adjectives?

    Quote Originally Posted by dihen View Post
    For that one, maybe I should have written it like this.
    `
    "In the manner of grunting and straining, Jean Valijean lifted the..."; most closely resembles the original meaning
    `
    Do you think it describes the manner of how he lifted it?

    That actually has no meaning at all. I don't think it describes the manner of lifting. In the original sentence, the particples describe the state of the subject. Jean was grunting and straining, not the lifting.

  10. #20
    dihen is offline Member
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    Re: participial phrases -- adverbs or adjectives?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    That actually has no meaning at all. I don't think it describes the manner of lifting. In the original sentence, the particples describe the state of the subject. Jean was grunting and straining, not the lifting.
    So is "in the state of grunting and straining" a rewrite that's closer to the original meaning? It sounds strange, of course. Is there a better way to rewrite it as an adverbial?
    `
    Besides that, for me, a question for "Grunting and straining, Jean Valijean lifted the..." can be "He lifted it like that?"; that is, the adverb "like that" can refer to the participial phrase "grunting and straining". Is that possible for you?
    Last edited by dihen; 29-Sep-2006 at 11:36.

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