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Thread: start (with)

  1. #11
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    Re: start (with)

    What about?

    EX: I need help with correcting the mistakes. <marginal>
    EX: I need help correcting the mistakes.

  2. #12
    dihen is offline Member
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    Re: start (with)

    So is "start with correcting the mistakes" unacceptable?

  3. #13
    Lenka is offline Senior Member
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    Re: start (with)

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    What about?

    EX: I need help with correcting the mistakes. <marginal>
    EX: I need help correcting the mistakes.
    What do the sentences mean and what is the difference between their meanings?

  4. #14
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    Re: start (with)

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea View Post
    What about?
    EX: I need help with correcting the mistakes. <marginal>
    EX: I need help correcting the mistakes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenka View Post
    What do the sentences mean and what is the difference between their meanings?
    The way I hear it, the first is something you could do on your own, but you'd prefer some help. This doesn't really work with mistakes (hence the 'marginal'). But I think it works with:

    I need help with delivering all these parcels.

    and

    I'll need help delivering all these parcels by midday.

    But the more I think about it, angels dancing on a pinhead come to mind

    b

  5. #15
    Lenka is offline Senior Member
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    Re: start (with)

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    The way I hear it, the first is something you could do on your own, but you'd prefer some help. This doesn't really work with mistakes (hence the 'marginal'). But I think it works with:

    I need help with delivering all these parcels.

    and

    I'll need help delivering all these parcels by midday.

    But the more I think about it, angels dancing on a pinhead come to mind

    b
    "angels dancing on a pinhead"? It sounds funny... What does it mean?

    I'll need help delivering all these parcels by midday. <= Here, is the word "delivering" present participle?

  6. #16
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    Re: start (with)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenka View Post
    "angels dancing on a pinhead"? It sounds funny... What does it mean?
    It's a reference to over-complex theoretical speculation for the sake of it. Some reformer (no idea which) accused theologians of wasting their time arguing about how many angels could dance on the head of a pin; I don't know if they ever did, but I like the expression anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenka View Post
    I'll need help delivering all these parcels by midday. <= Here, is the word "delivering" present participle?
    You could argue that the sentence quoted is an abbreviation of I'll need help [while I am] delivering all these parcels by midday. In that case, it's a participle.

    I'd prefer to think of it as an abbreviation of I'll need help [with the process of] delivering all these parcels by midday. In that case, it's a gerund.

    I don't believe it matters much which you believe; what matters is that you use the actual utterances competently.

    b

  7. #17
    Lenka is offline Senior Member
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    Re: start (with)

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    It's a reference to over-complex theoretical speculation for the sake of it. Some reformer (no idea which) accused theologians of wasting their time arguing about how many angels could dance on the head of a pin; I don't know if they ever did, but I like the expression anyway.



    You could argue that the sentence quoted is an abbreviation of I'll need help [while I am] delivering all these parcels by midday. In that case, it's a participle.

    I'd prefer to think of it as an abbreviation of I'll need help [with the process of] delivering all these parcels by midday. In that case, it's a gerund.

    I don't believe it matters much which you believe; what matters is that you use the actual utterances competently.

    b
    Mmmm... I don't think that I could say such sentences - I mean I can't use them actively - I just know it passively. Anyway, every word has to be remembered and remembered, repeated and repeated before you know it well and csn use it actively - maybe I'll learn to use it too, in some time.

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