Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13
  1. #1
    Burwood is offline Newbie
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Ireland
      • Current Location:
      • Ireland
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default They made us translate an English paragraph. 2 clauses here?

    Hi everyone.

    Although I'm an English speaker I know very little about grammar. I think there are two clauses in this sentence. Could someone tell me if I'm right? And if not, please explain how the two verbs relate to each other.

    Thanks for any help.

    They made us translate an English paragraph.
    (They made us)(translate an English paragraph.)

  2. #2
    mykwyner is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,047
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: They made us translate an English paragraph. 2 clauses here?

    A clause is a group of related words that has a subject and a predicate.
    Your sentence has only one clause.

  3. #3
    Burwood is offline Newbie
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Student or Learner
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Ireland
      • Current Location:
      • Ireland
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: They made us translate an English paragraph. 2 clauses here?

    Quote Originally Posted by mykwyner View Post
    A clause is a group of related words that has a subject and a predicate.
    Your sentence has only one clause.
    Thanks mykwyner for your help in my effort to understand.

    B.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    238
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: They made us translate an English paragraph. 2 clauses here?

    Actually, it DOES have two clauses.

    "They made us translate an English paragraph."

    They made=main clause, finite

    us translate an English paragraph=subordinate clause, non-finite

    It's a bare infinitive clause

    See http://www.ucl.ac.uk/internet-grammar/clauses/bare.htm

  5. #5
    mykwyner is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,047
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: They made us translate an English paragraph. 2 clauses here?

    Sorry, us cannot be a subject, therefore us translate... cannot be a clause of any type.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,554
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: They made us translate an English paragraph. 2 clauses here?

    As a matter of fact, the clause is "translate an English sentence", not "us translate an English sentence" (the page Mariner linked to contains a small error).

    It is an example of a non-finite clause, and in a non-finite clause, the subject is only implied. Here, the implied subject is "we". (Non-finite clauses cannot have explicit subjects because the verb is non-finite, and non-finite verbs do not have subjects.)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    238
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: They made us translate an English paragraph. 2 clauses here?

    Thanks for the clarification rewboss. As a matter of fact, at first I intended to give as a clause the "translate an English sentence", as you suggest. But then I saw the example in University College London's site, and I reconsidered. Well, even UCL can make mistakes, huh?
    Last edited by Mariner; 06-Oct-2006 at 15:42.

  8. #8
    mykwyner is offline Key Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • English Teacher
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,047
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: They made us translate an English paragraph. 2 clauses here?

    If translate is a non-finite verb because no tense comparison is possible in this context (and I agree that it is), then it can be called a non-finite clause. This is, however, a relatively new idea (at least to me) in sentence analysis. Many of us old-timers were taught that a clause without a finite verb is a phrase.

    Even old-timers have to admit when they are out of step. I humbly agree that rewboss's answer is the correct one.

  9. #9
    MikeNewYork's Avatar
    MikeNewYork is offline VIP Member
    • Member Info
      • Member Type:
      • Academic
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    13,513
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: They made us translate an English paragraph. 2 clauses here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Burwood View Post
    Hi everyone.

    Although I'm an English speaker I know very little about grammar. I think there are two clauses in this sentence. Could someone tell me if I'm right? And if not, please explain how the two verbs relate to each other.

    Thanks for any help.

    They made us translate an English paragraph.
    (They made us)(translate an English paragraph.)
    As you read the replies in this thread, you will likely be confused. There are two different points of view regarding verbals (gerunds, participles, and infinitives). The traditional view holds these verbals to be parts of speech other than verbs. In that view, your sentence has only one clause.

    In a different viewpoint, these verbals function as non-finite verbs in non-finite clauses. In that view, there are two clauses in your sentence, one finite and one non-finite.

    I prefer the first approach. In that system:

    they = subject
    made = verb
    us = indirect object
    translate = a bare infinitive acting as the complement/direct object of the verb
    an English manuscript = the direct object of the verbal "translate".

    [Verbals maintain the ability to take objects and adverbial modifiers.]



    IMO opinion, the co-existence of these two viewpoints just causes confusion for learners, but I suspect that the two will be around together for a long time.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    1,554
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Re: They made us translate an English paragraph. 2 clauses here?

    Quote Originally Posted by mykwyner View Post
    Many of us old-timers were taught that a clause without a finite verb is a phrase.
    Taking this, and adding to what MikeNewYork said:

    Sometimes you can interpret the same thing in more than one way. A phrase is a group of words that acts as a unit in a sentence; thus a sentence like "The cheerful girl was running way too fast" contains three phrases -- the noun phrase "the cheerful girl", the verb phrase "was running" and the adverbial phrase "way too fast". Each can be replaced by a single word: "Mary ran fast".

    In the sentence "They made us translate a text", the group of words "translate a text" does function as a phrase in itself; it can be replaced by a noun phrase, as in "They made us drinks", although that does completely change the meaning of the sentence. That said, the clause itself consists of two phrases: a verb phrase ("translate") and a noun phrase ("a text").

    In short, it is not wrong to call it a phrase, as it does perform the function of a noun phrase. But because such phrases themselves can contain more than one phrase, it is probably more useful to class it as a clause, but a special type of clause.

    All of which is probably very baffling to Burwood, let alone the non-native speakers here, but it all goes to prove one thing: That sentence analysis can be a very complex and difficult science, and there aren't always very clear-cut answers. Indeed, one can imagine grammarians grabbing each other by the lapel and screaming at each other, "It's a clause, I say!" -- "No, I tell you, it has no subject!"

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. "be made of" & "be made from"?
    By simile in forum Frequently Asked Questions
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 23-Oct-2009, 03:57
  2. An English Lesson for Beginners
    By Anonymous in forum General Language Discussions
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 01-Jul-2008, 08:10
  3. ENGLISH LEVEL IN KARACHI!!
    By kutekool_22 in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-Apr-2004, 14:24
  4. Use of 'made of' or 'made from' or 'made out of'
    By Saritha Enoch in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 15-Mar-2004, 15:34

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Hotchalk