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  1. #1
    dihen is offline Member
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    Default "-ate" and the long "a"?

    Why aren't these pronunciation listed in the dictionary? Because they're non-standard? I can list more words if I need to.
    `
    surface as "surfays" (stressed - unstressed, but in the second syllable, the "a" in "face" is pronounced as the "a" in the word "face"?)
    `
    predicate as "predicayt" (stressed - unstressed - unstressed, but "a" as in the word "late")

  2. #2
    MikeNewYork's Avatar
    MikeNewYork is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: "-ate" and the long "a"?

    Quote Originally Posted by dihen View Post
    Why aren't these pronunciation listed in the dictionary? Because they're non-standard? I can list more words if I need to.
    `
    surface as "surfays" (stressed - unstressed, but in the second syllable, the "a" in "face" is pronounced as the "a" in the word "face"?)
    `
    predicate as "predicayt" (stressed - unstressed - unstressed, but "a" as in the word "late")
    Normally, the vowels in unstressed syllables have a schwa instead of a long vowel. That can change with different parts of speech, however. The schwa occurs in "surface" as noun or as a verb. With "predicate", however, the long A is used in the second syllable when it is a verb.

    pred·i·cate (prĕd'ĭ-kāt')

    v., -cat·ed, -cat·ing, -cates.

    v.tr.
    1. To base or establish (a statement or action, for example): I predicated my argument on the facts.
    2. To state or affirm as an attribute or quality of something: The sermon predicated the perfectibility of humankind.
    3. To carry the connotation of; imply.
    4. Logic. To make (a term or expression) the predicate of a proposition.
    5. To proclaim or assert; declare.
    v.intr.
    To make a statement or assertion.
    n. (-kĭt)
    1. Grammar. One of the two main constituents of a sentence or clause, modifying the subject and including the verb, objects, or phrases governed by the verb, as opened the door in Jane opened the door or is very sleepy in The child is very sleepy.
    2. Logic. That part of a proposition that is affirmed or denied about the subject. For example, in the proposition We are mortal, mortal is the predicate.
    adj. (-kĭt)
    1. Grammar. Of or belonging to the predicate of a sentence or clause.
    2. Stated or asserted; predicated.

  3. #3
    dihen is offline Member
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    Default Re: "-ate" and the long "a"?

    Is pronouncing it as the long "A" acceptable as a stressed pronunciation?

  4. #4
    MikeNewYork's Avatar
    MikeNewYork is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: "-ate" and the long "a"?

    Quote Originally Posted by dihen View Post
    Is pronouncing it as the long "A" acceptable as a stressed pronunciation?
    In which word?

    If you mean sur FACE instead of SUR face, no.

  5. #5
    dihen is offline Member
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    Default Re: "-ate" and the long "a"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    In which word?
    If you mean sur FACE instead of SUR face, no.
    I mean "extended".
    `
    SUR faaaeys

  6. #6
    MikeNewYork's Avatar
    MikeNewYork is offline VIP Member
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    Default Re: "-ate" and the long "a"?

    Quote Originally Posted by dihen View Post
    I mean "extended".
    `
    SUR faaaeys
    Still no.

    That would be Sur fiiiiisssss.

  7. #7
    BobK's Avatar
    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Default Re: "-ate" and the long "a"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    ... The schwa occurs in "surface" as noun or as a verb. ..
    This applies to AmE, and to some dialects of BrE. Most speakers of standard British English that I know say /'sɜ:fɪs/.

    What Mike says about "predicate", though, goes for us too.

    b

  8. #8
    MikeNewYork's Avatar
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    Default Re: "-ate" and the long "a"?

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    This applies to AmE, and to some dialects of BrE. Most speakers of standard British English that I know say /'sɜ:fɪs/.

    What Mike says about "predicate", though, goes for us too.

    b
    Your pronunciation keys appear as hollow squares for me.

  9. #9
    BobK's Avatar
    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Default Re: "-ate" and the long "a"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNewYork View Post
    Your pronunciation keys appear as hollow squares for me.
    OK, I'll try again with Lucida Sans Unicode - but I gave that up because it didn't seem to have the character I wanted; so I used http://www.e-lang.co.uk/mackichan/call/pron/type.html

    /ˈsɜ:fıs/

    b

  10. #10
    dihen is offline Member
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    Default Re: "-ate" and the long "a"?

    Another one:
    `
    "accurate" as "accurayte" (acceptable or not?)

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